lifeisbrutallyunfair.com - perpetual revolution of the soul

perpetual revolution of the soul

_POSTED_BY desik

Saturday, 08 November 2008

kick over the coffee tables by autotelic

Comments

E from B - populist confusion

|2008-11-08 05:28:49

there's talk of a new stimulus package for the middle class, is that just
another way of saying there's a new stimulus package for the working poor? I
just think it's unusual that the term "working class" is hardly used
anymore. Does everyone in this country tell themselves that they're part of the
great middle class even if they're not? Is the issue of class actually
irrelevant to most Americans? Why aren't the various levels of middle class
defined more clearly? Are we to just assume that the middle class now consists
of anyone that makes between 25,000 and 150,000 dollars a year? Do people that
make under 20,000 dollars a year not qualify for the stimulus money because
they're not middle class? I want to know where the middle class starts and
where it ends. It's very sketchy in this part of the world.

Devon

|2008-11-08 05:39:46

I wouldn't look to the public sector to answer this question. The only real
hope for the poor may be through the generosity of incredibly wealthy
philanthropists.

And no, I haven't read the book 'Philanthrocapitalism: How
The Rich Can Save The World'

But many are convinced that private money is the
only way to address public problems, such as mass poverty.

jon	\|2008-11-08 09:44:27

Think we can safely assume that the middle class US politicians play to - and
lets hope Obama will be different - doesnt include the working poor .

Class
is an issue in America but there's a reluctance to use the term working class
because its usage would aid class consciousness. There is clearly an advantage
it presenting society as practically classless or economically and socially
homogenous but that advantage starts to unravel once the economy cycles back
into recession because those treated less favourably will soon become conscious
of who they are.

Anonymous

|2008-11-08 05:58:16

so why no stimulus package for the working poor?
most people are part of the
working poor.
Today Obama said that he thinks we need a new stimulus package
for the middle class, but from what I can see, if we're honest about class, most
people aren't quite middle class.

frank - upward redistribution

|2008-11-09 10:22:58

Politicians will court the poor when its politically expedient to but they are
wary of alienating the middle classes because of their historical role in
pushing for social and economic reform. At times of economic instability money
is redistributed away from the poorest and most vunerable in society towards the
middle class. This upward redistribution is done so routinely in most western
socities it is not even considered newsworthy.

Anonymous

|2008-11-08 06:37:19

your picture says 'salvation starts with the poor', but that's not really true
is it? And perhaps it's not even something that Obama has thought about or
believes? Of course I realize that he wasn't running on the liberation theology
ticket, and maybe I just read too much into his efforts to reach out to the
rural poor in places like Iowa.

CoonDog - Devel Take the Hindmost

|2008-11-08 20:48:22

Wealthy individuals may not be able to save the world but Big Government only
ever saved the appearances and poor people are poor because they are too stupid
to save anything for hard times.

Its like natural selection, we cant and
shouldnt intervene to protect the rural poor or anyone else from their own bad
judgments and choices. This is America, not communist China.

RayBanMan - salvation starts with family

|2008-11-08 11:01:32

Salvation starts with family , at least in my book, but Barack Obama for
all his sermonising on 'combatting selfishness, sharing wealth and being our brothers keeper'
doesnt seem to practice what he preaches when it comes to looking out for
his own relatives as evidenced by the plight of his penniless cousin
in Kenya and his Aunt Zeituni currently facing deportation as an illegal
from the rundown Boston housing project she lived in. Seems to me a
little Liberation Theology wouldnt go amiss for Mr Obama and I'm a
moderate Conservative Protestant with no real axe to grind over his
landslide victory.

Anonymous - relative poverty

|2008-11-08 20:45:00

The media has probably blown the Obama relative thing out of all proportion
but I can see where RayBan is coming from in another sense because
if we interpret the challenged 'salvation starts with the poor ' quote from the pic to include cultural
and spiritual poverty as well as economic hardship we have a much
more identifiable and inclusive constituency to target and far broader
issues to frame the Change agenda and economic and social reform around.

I know very little about Liberation Theology, I would probably
describe myself as a soft liberal agnostic but I know we are definitely
going to need to evolve new spiritual and cultural support systems if
we are to transition to the lifestyle changes required of us in coming
years by environmental and other factors. Interesting discussion.

TRosen - philanthropy and recession

|2008-11-09 10:15:03

I heve not read 'Philanthrocapitalism: How
The Rich Can Save The World and Why
We Should Let Them' either but I did happen to read a review of the book
recently and winced at the timing because in a recession the demand for
philanthropy increases as the supply of philanthropic capital, from corporations
and wealthy individuals , contracts.

The collapse of Lehman Brothers and
several other banks instantly vapourised a collosal amount of philanthropic
capital and other financial institutions have now effectively been partially
nationalised to prevent them going under as well meaning the State's
relationship to these would be 'world savers' is now philanthropic .

The
State is a stabilising factor, a role free marketeers simply ignore. The State
also has a wider political and moral scope that large corporations and wealthy
givers simply do not have .
This is not a call for Bigger Government its a
call for a sensible mixed economy.

McTicket - class haters

|2008-11-08 20:43:53

First you post images of Karl Marx in a Statue of Liberty pose to deliberately
provoke a response from ordinary hard working freedom loving Americans now you
senselessly attack those who care within your own party. What the fuck is up
with you people ? You are just a bunch of name calling haters and faggots!

Anonymous

|2008-11-08 15:30:02

Hey McTicket: There are various levels of class within our own party, and
we're just trying to figure out how to discuss the issue of
poverty, and it's tricky since many people aren't comfortable using
terms like marginalized, proletarian, working class, working poor, or
blue collar. We are relieved that Obama won, but we also realize that this isn't a real revolution in the purest sense of
the word. So it stands to reason that the bourgeois (officially
middle class) members of our party are the only ones that are still
blowing their horns, screaming in the streets, and opening up their closets
of 60's memorabilia.

McTicket - Getting Ready for Palin in 2012

|2008-11-08 15:49:45

Your party has one class, no class and the sooner Obama is impeached for
corruption , which he will be, the better.

Red Catholic Girl

|2008-11-08 15:54:58

"When I gave food to the poor, they called me a saint. When I asked
why the poor were hungry, they called me a communist."

Peter Ryan, Union Rep, MO

|2008-11-08 20:59:01

Red, there is no middle class in America any more, there is just rich and poor.

E From B - I'm rural

|2008-11-09 00:57:46

well, I'm the one that started this conversation, and I think my post sounds
very naive compared to some of the more acedemic observers.

25,000 dollars a
year doesn't sound very middle class to me. I was grasping in the dark with the
numbers. So let me rephrase the question: Do people that make between 40,000
and 125,000 dollars a year constitute the middle class? I'm still pretty
confused. When I was a teenager back in the mid 80's everyone in town agreed
that 25,000 dollars a year was decent money, but we now know that kind of money
isn't even a living wage anymore. I'm kind of embarrassed about writing this,
but I'm just as interested in having the different levels of class defined too,
it all seems so dynamic, like the economy.

And if a guy makes 30 or 35,000
dollars a year, would people say that he's almost middle class?

Thatch - wobbly-wobbly-wobblies

|2008-11-09 01:36:11

you guys are caught in some kind of time warp, eugene debs has been dead for a
long time now.
why waste so much time eating, breathing and sleeping class
consciousness?

jillian

|2008-11-09 02:07:56

And sadly, Paul Wellstone is no longer alive either.

vinny

|2008-11-09 03:00:24

36 million working poor in America, surely the upcoming middle class stimulus
package must be for them, right?

admin #2

|2008-11-09 03:20:59

Hopefully Obama will appoint a painfully honest person to head The Department of
Semantics.

Anonymous

|2008-11-09 06:54:40

Guys like Paul Wellstone and Eugene Debs would never have been elected president
of this country, and I find that profoundly depressing.
So what's all this talk
about hope?

Sean'sMom - MC defined by social policy plans

|2008-11-09 08:41:58

E from Biloxi

"Obama vowed to help working class families and to stem the
problems before they get worse.

He said the United States "can't afford
to wait" to move forward with his priorities like clean energy, health care
reform, improvements to the education system and tax relief for the middle
class."

The above from the Democrats weekly radio broadcast yesterday
just deepens the mystery and you're right to keep hammering away at this issue
hon as we urgently need to know what income range Obama's proposed tax code
based stimulus package is aimed at so we can figure exactly who his great
American middle class are and whether we make the cut !

TonyP - stark contrast?

|2008-11-09 09:14:20

On paper , Barack Obama and the late Paul Wellstone hail from the same place ,
deep rooted community activism alongside the marginalised, disenfranchised and
working poor but Obama's ambiguous utterances are starting to concern me .

frank

|2008-11-09 09:21:02

Thatch,

Why continue to focus on class consciousness? Because if you forget
class you end up with a society like ours where the only morality is the buck.

anon	\|2008-11-09 10:47:27

There will obviously be great sacrifices expected of us in future.

SheliaB

|2008-11-09 11:05:00

I'm wondering if Sasha and Malia are going to end up recovering alcoholics on
the 2030 version of the Springer show bitching about their dad giving them the
wrong puppy.

krist - for the record

|2008-11-09 13:24:42

My guiding political principle is 'question authority' so its good to see people on the left trying to pin
down and clarify Obama's latest social policy pronouncements rather
than just blindly succumb to what looks dangerously like an emerging
cult of personality .

Anon	\|2008-11-09 14:10:43

OK krist but be reasonable, there's a lot of economic anxiety out there and
Barack Obama is the man American workers voted for to restore the American Dream
and restore it he will, I have every confidence in his ability .

Red Vinegar - Am I A Real Cunt for Posting This?

|2008-11-10 05:34:28

�The whole dream of democracy is to raise the proletarian to the level of
stupidity attained by the bourgeois�

Eco Beotch - A New Earth

|2008-11-10 14:17:01

some would say that's a pretty cunty thing to utter (great quote by the way),
but only by the ones that don't realize that the planet, the host, won't
tolerate class division for very much longer. If you can just hang in there til
2030, you might see all the wrongs put right, you might be able to die in peace.
The planet will support you in your struggle, by eradicating the humans.

All
the other species understand your laments, and rage for justice.

Anonymous

|2008-11-10 15:11:52

chill out! this new administration has every intention of operating from a
place of humility, the new humanism is starting to manifest, stop being so
cynical.

hotdish - your order

|2008-11-10 18:48:23

Hello

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life in USA for ever. I have XXX pictures of your like .
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anon old timer - Just Wanted to say....

|2008-11-10 22:21:42

Hey E from B, love your perserverence and clarity , you've made every comment
count as far as this old Class Warrior is concerned which is more than can be
said for some of the jumped up jackasses posting here nowadays. I go way back
on this board to the days when Redstarfist, Anna and the Kid regularly had me
cracking my ribs with laughter -they were fucking hilarious - while making
really salient points.

Stay with it. You're on the A Team.

zeb - Help Class 101 post needed!!!!!

|2008-11-11 01:05:37

The more I read about the subject of Class the more difficult I find it to
hammer down what Class actually is ,what role it plays within our society and
everyday lives and now I am even struggling to figure out what class I belong
to!

For example, the way Barack Obama uses the term 'middle class ' you would
think it applied to everyone in a job apart from the richest people in America
. Hell, maybe he even thinks Bill Gates is middle class because they share the
same politics, values and tastes , who knows?

On the other hand, Michael
Zweig from the Centre for the Study of Working Class Life claims in The Working
Class Majority: America's Best Kept Secret that the majority of Americans are
working class and that class in not about income its a power relation and he
thinks if you duck acknowledging this you miss out on who has the real power
within society and what they use it for.

Can we have a dedicated post on
Class please before my efforts to raise my class consciousness result in a nose
bleed.

Thanks

admin3 - re:Help Class 101 post needed!!!!!

|2008-11-11 01:46:50

We're working on it Zeb but please, stop using the contact us form to demand
female contributors private e-mail addresses as that's not really ' class
solidarity ' as you put it and could you please cease and desist from pestering
one poster in particular as she no longer wishes to communicate with you and the
abusive calls to her place of work have been traced back to the minimum secure
facility in Rochester you're currently in and if you dont quit it you can look
forward to a visit from Shenectedy PD and a swift upgrade to that medium secure
joint over at Moravia. Keep up the reading and if you are really serious about
working on your class consciousness google Lumpenproletariat.

.

The Most Anonymous of All - CMOP

|2008-11-11 06:40:27

Hey Hotdish, I was once in your shoes, but I wasn't able to keep my mouth shut
about class consciousness, so all of my naked pictures turned out to be pretty
useless in the production possibilities frontier.

Hope your pictures are real
zingers.....mine were just a farce, and every photographer I worked with accused
me of being an angry little boy trapped inside a woman's body. So when you
smile for the camera, don't make it look like it's just a joke!

If you're
looking to score the full package deal of bourgeois security, ya really have to
take it seriously.

DOS - class 101 info

|2008-11-11 07:13:23

Seems a lot of people are also confused as to whether or not they could safely
and easily be labeled as petite bourgeois(ie).

Some will be relieved to
discover that they're not actually working class, they'll turn it into a
celebration, make a big night on the town with this discovery, singing in unison
at the local pub, "WE'RE NOT WORKING CLASS! WE'RE PETITE BOURGEOISIE!"
(repeating it about 50 times)

And others will speak in hushed tones asking,
"is it really true, how can it be, am I really petite bourgeoisie, hmmm,
well how about that, I never knew, who would have ever guessed? How does this
change things? What does it really mean?"

But none of this applies to
the 36 million working poor in america.

Trent

|2008-11-11 08:10:14

The real decider though, the one that is going to have people climbing out on
the window ledge and tearful surburban housewives slashing their wrists or
filing for divorce ( why didnt you ever say anything you Bastard what am I going
to possibly tell the kids!! )is whether people are upper middle class or lower
middle class. Yes Sir, you better think of moving to a new neighbourhood or
getting on something akin to a national witness protection program if you get
this baby wrong! What? You are only a glorified filing clerk from Renton ....but
but but...the suit ...the new car every other year...the golf club
membership....boy have you over-extended but hey you already know that as I'm
sure the bank has foreclosed on that house you knew you couldnt afford to live
in already, you know the one on the upper middle class side of town , you know
that airy ranch style home in the walled community where your neighbours have
now relegated you to the ranks of the socially dead for you daring to try to
pass yourself of as one of them.

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