i think the guy behind me is also here for the dual diagnosis class
_POSTED_BY desik   
Tuesday, 25 August 2009

Image
shake, rattle and hum by autotelic
 

Comments
autotelic   |2009-08-26 03:55:13
I wonder if in those love addicts anonymous groups people talk about how they
never remain friends with their exes, because they were never friends in the
first place?

The addict gets to be a kangaroo, and wow man, if the chemistry
is right, a new best friend is manifested on the first date.

I suppose if I
find a 12 step group I can bring up the issue.
ThePleasantvilleKid   |2009-08-26 05:19:37
Well, I've kept in contact with my most of my ex's and considered I did this
out of a genuine desire to help support them move on. I now realise that I
simply wished to avoid any feeling of resentment on my part and theirs and that
my motives were not very noble at all.
NamVet   |2009-08-26 05:30:14
Wake up Kid!!! Real men with balls call that being pussy whipped! Grow a pair
and learn that its ok to fucking hate anyone who fucks with you.
jillian   |2009-08-26 14:21:43
yeah kid, you sound like my latest ex, in fact, he sent me a big check in the
mail as a consolation prize, it was incredibly offensive, it was his way of
saying, "you really deserve a vacation."
autotelic   |2009-08-26 14:32:04
there's this great song by graham coxon called 'bittersweet bundle of misery', I
listened to it over and over again after my latest break up, it's a video worth
watching if you want to post it.
sarah   |2009-08-27 04:22:33
i know all about the nerve that is required to take a long hard look at the dark
underbelly of short term romantic relationships, from what I've seen, women are
always much more swwift than men about recognizing the lesson learned, the roles
that were played, the necessity of the experience, and the reasons why it was
doomed from the start. Often it's not possible to process with the men we were
so deeply involved with because they have a way of "preserving the good
memory", and quietly running back to nurture their own addictions and
denial. I hate to generalize, but in my experience this has been true. For
whatever reason, perhaps it's biological, it's much easier for men to just
switch off into sociopath mode.

You might want to find a sponsor if you're
serious about your recovery.
D   |2009-08-27 18:50:30
I can see why that Graham Coxon number created the right emotionally resonant
background vibe to numb out and try to reintergrate to . most of the tracks off
Happiness in Magazines 'mine that same raw and painfully bittersweet seam,
think Coxon was battling with his own destrutive addictions when he thrashed it
out too , know a few of tracks off that album have spoke to me at my darkest
too, probably kept him sane as well. if other people dont get the album then
they are seriously overdue having the rug of their self satisfied lives pulled
out from under them.

take it away Mr Coxon
Dr Spock   |2009-08-28 14:40:09
Not sure our objective human reactions to the disintergration of intimacy are so
starkly different as the way a lot of women darkly ruminate over the whole
sorry psychic drama to apportion and ' direct' roles, motives and blame is
ultimatetly just as sociopathic ( and probably 'learned ') as the kind of
typical strategies guys retreat into like writing checks to regain control of
the freefalling situation and make their own feelings more inhabitable. we're
all playing to the same old death avoidance scripts and to imagine we bring
anything new to the table while still reeling from the trauma of a recent split
is to miss out on the bittersweet tragi-comedy of it all.
bjorn   |2009-08-28 14:25:56
at least he didnt send you a CD of bhuddist chants....

who knows, a
bittersweet bundle of memories to dissect and agonize over is most likely
preferable to the icy bittersweet bundle-less void that endures with no apparent
cause.

you'll be ok...

no luck with the sponsor here yet and i've
abandoned any hope of help from supernatural quarters . maybe Alison Moyet and
the orginal blog post title were wrong, maybe all we actually need sometimes is
a little more 'self-intervention'

on exploring that front, was wondering if
you'd be prepared to trade that sex and addictions book if you've finished with
it for a new hardback copy of 'How God Changes your Brain ' by Andrew Newberg
as i'm there's sure there's some useful data overlap and Amazon already
profits way too much from human misery.
autotelic   |2009-08-28 02:34:12
Sarah's post really resonated with me, but as soon as I read it I had a funny
feeling that an XY chromosome would intervene with the other side of the dark
underbelly, but that's good, it really helps to keep things objective.
Angie  - sisters are doing it for themselves   |2009-08-28 14:29:52
Personally I'm cool with blaming the male of the species every time because I'm
a totally unreasonable fucking bitch at the best of times but I'd still like to
know what science has to tell us about gender and failed romantic relationships
anyway.
Frank   |2009-08-28 16:54:45
Hey admin is the site's Gender Verification system down as that last comment
certainly doesn't come across as the NY Angie who used to post here. She had no
interest in science , the sisterhood or any other uptown bulshit.
D   |2009-08-28 15:23:43
Watched this documentary last night on two addicts, one kid was addicted to
eating and grossly morbidly obese , the other was a crazed meth head on the
brink of offing himself. It was incredibly painful to watch and not powerfully
feel for these people crippled by their addictions but the kicker for me as a
bordeline was that both still had close loving families behind them and were
in relatively stable relationships with a significant other who was routing for
them too.
autotelic  - american psycho   |2009-08-28 15:53:58
well i think once you admit that you have an addiction, and recognize that it
has soiled most of your intimate relationships, you tend to attract others that
are in recovery, and that's why i said that it opens up a whole new way of
dialogue.

I realize that every man I've been involved with had some kind of
addiction, even the most seemingly benign addictions (like playing video games,
food binging, shopping) can cause create barriers to achieving healthy
intimacy.

it's the hypocrisy that makes me angry, of course i always get
blamed for being too dark, too human, and then after a break up, the guy never
wants to be called on his own stuff (like being in too much denial about his own
stuff)

and then in retrospect, i say to myself, "that motherfucker was
just so bourgeoise! He won't take any responsibility for his own toxic ooze!
Yuck!"

yes, i'm still angry.
Bjorn  - She came to stay   |2009-08-28 16:49:29
Yeah! Frustration and anger are pretty much legitimate responses to this sort of
shit in my book too as the borderline's outlook to life , particularly the
bleaker and more realistic view of it, is always going to be jumped on by others
as negative and thats not going to stop just because you get into a romantic
relationship. and its always going to form the basis of the cruelest last
parting shot in any failed relationship or romantic union, but you already know
that.

Then again , maybe you should have been more wary of his OCD
traits....its always a tough call when acceptance, warts and all, in any kind
of human relationship is so hard to come by. If the darker side comes naturally
and cant be medicated away then , well, the surest way to relational success is
to just comply and lie.

i'm not so sure i'd find that existentially
acceptable , i guess its just a question of how much one would want to fit into
a typical relationship and society to guarantee one's survival - genetically or
otherwise.

But Angie our resident Happy Hooker has hit on something, bless
her. Maybe we all need to liberate our inner geeks a bit more to learn from
these fucking painful and recurring life experiences.

I was thinking of a
program for detecting compulsivity and addictive online behaviour the other day
and reading Angie's comment I got to thinking it would probably be more helpful
all round too - particularly as ex's have this thing of not speaking - to
somehow pool the data from both partners in doomed relationships and anonomize
it so that feedback could be considered and acted upon without anyone taking
offence. i'm all for graphing failed relationships for humanitarian and
educational reasons, worst way we can use the result for a future pic.
Angie  - biting dr doolittle's hand   |2009-08-28 17:02:37
Frank, Stop being so fucking over-protective of me like we are in a relationship
or something.
vinny   |2009-08-29 02:26:38
i admire your attempt to live the 12 steps, especially if it's your first time,
but don't be surprised if you have a hard time seeing them through next time
you're presented with your favorite drug of choice, it's definitely easier to
pull off if you get involved with someone that also uses the steps as a model
for emotional sobriety.

........cause we all know that even misguided
unhealthy love can feel like a religious experience
vinny   |2009-08-29 02:33:35
and remember, everyone's injured in this culture, starving for all those things
they didn't get in childhood, don't go giving your love to someone that refuses
to admit this.

it's amazing how horribly fucked up the people that don't
think they have a problem really are.

i get the impression that you always
knew there were problems with your own way of relating in intimate environments,
but with the 12 steps you might be able to exercise a little more impulse
control, so that puts you 2 steps ahead of most people
jillian  - highly psychotic functionals   |2009-08-29 02:40:59
and you especially have to watch out for the ones that say, "I'm just
a normal guy."

(what that often means is that they refuse to
allow themselves to have a social conscience.)

and yes, the normal guys
will break up with you in an email, and the tone will sound like it
was written by a republican speechwriter.
autotelic  - a lover spurned   |2009-08-29 03:06:25
ok this was the break up letter i got in my inbox:

"I started to care for
you way too much, and I realized that i can't allow myself to fall in love with
someone that has such intense suicidal ideation, and such a negative, cynical
outlook on life, with you, the glass isn't half-empty or half full, it's already
broken! I've decided to terminate this relationship. Any man will be proud and
fortunate to have you as a girlfriend, but you really need to find someone that
is visited with regular frequency by dark existential energy patterns, you're so
incredibly loveable, so much so that it obscured the other stuff that i just
mentioned, and in the beginning i naively thought that i could just meditate it
away, but your suicidal thoughts are starting to rub off on me. I want a
relationship that's going to make me feel happier and better, you know? Please
don't use a vulgar tone when making reference to this relationship. I
introduced you to my parents cause I believed in us. I'm really really sorry,
but this happens to couples every second, all over the world, all my best
wishes."

Anyway, I got dumped, and all that intense sucidal ideation has
subsided (ideation that i had when i was with him, not after he left me)
sarah   |2009-08-29 03:26:38
hmm, that's a pretty interesting dynamic, sometimes the existential ones do
feel more hopeless, alone, and disappointed when they get into a relationship
because they realize that they still have to deal with their own stuff, the
companionship is always a tonic full of respite, but it's never enough to
'comply and lie', and pretend that now you don't have to think about aging,
death, purpose and meaning, a relationship highlights all that stuff FOR THE
DARK ONE, but for the so-called normal people there aren't supposed to be any
problems now that the return to wholeness has been secured. In fact, the whole
idea of intimacy means very different things to those coming from the dark side,
and those coming from the light side, so the superficiality really grates on the
darky, and the overwhelming deepness and complexity of the darky bothers the
fuck out of the lighty.

get it?

the darky tries to reach the light by
really wanting to get to know the other, and the lighty will do whatever it
takes to don the mask of sanity at all costs......Lighty doesn't want it to be
known that (s)he too struggles with a plethora of addictive behaviors and faulty
thought patterns.

But like joan didion says, "sanity is so
superficial."
LAA   |2009-08-29 14:07:23
it's important to recognize that when 2 people enter a relationship, they both
show up with an empty plate of needs, and because everyone is so hungry, the
tendency is to jump right into romance, it's not smart to bond so deeply with
someone physically, only to find out 1 or 2 months later, that there isn't any
real bonding or understanding outside of the bedroom, getting a sponsor can help
encourage you to stay platonic, most people don't have the discipline to go
through with a proper courtship, and that's why the 12 steps are so important,
call it a moral compass of sorts.
Anonymous   |2009-08-29 14:19:54
about the video: i never knew about graham coxon until now, he was in blur? he
has several albums?
how come i never knew? what an incredibly cool song you
posted.
MarinCountyHealer  - the noble psychopath   |2009-08-29 14:26:34
Oh autotelic, I'm so sorry, what a horribly neurotic and self circular character your ex is.

He
heroicly presents himself as somehow having levitated guru-like above and
apart from his relationship with you as the kindly but disapointed Zen
master who is forced to notify the once promising student he attempted
to enlighten that, on noble meditated reflection , he now realises she
is no longer worthy of joining him on his pathway to nirvana .

No
wonder he flinched at being reminded that his mindfulness never seemed
to get in the way of sex.
D   |2009-08-29 15:05:20
Graham Coxon's raw back to basics approach was and still is the badly needed
antidote to Albarn's tendency to blandly over produce . I have no idea why Coxon
agreed to perform with Blur again since he made it very clear that going through
the motions with the band played a large part in his desperate alcoholism. Maybe
getting back together with the band is the artistic equivalent of Coxon thinking
he can handle one last drink.
Angie  - for the guy with everything   |2009-08-29 15:27:45
"I want a relationship that's going to make me feel happier and
better, you know? "

Try being a bit more honest with yourself and
others about you own failings then you fucking jerk. You're a
remorseless psychopath!

Bear up there autotelic.
autotelic   |2009-08-29 15:27:19
graham coxon is a real cutie, makes me wonder why i ever had a crush on rivers
cuomo when i could have had a crush on graham instead!

ok, this is the most
outrageous part about my ex: when we met he said that he has eradicated 85% of
his thoughts through meditation, and that he has burned out ego, therefore he
believed that he would be able to easily process all the dark alleys that i have
seen in a way that all those other men were unable to do.......so i trusted him,
i do suspect though that he dumped me first before i had the chance to dump him,
he wanted me around all the time, and it was only when he sensed that i didn't
need to be around him every day that he dumped me, he's a fucking leo! what do
you expect? a capricorn and a leo have no business being together.

and let
me tell you, had i played my cards right, the guy would have supported me
financially into old age, he broke up with me 2 weeks after he showed me off to
his family and friends, and all i could say was "i'm the same person that i
was 2 weeks ago, what are you going to tell your family, that you suddenly
discovered that i was mentally ill?"

and btw: he's been divorced twice,
in fact he left his second wife because she was having suicidal thoughts, and
then he basically gave her an ultimatum, telling her that he would retract the
divorce papers if she would work on the marriage and banish her suicidal
thoughts, she opted for the divorce instead.
desik   |2009-08-29 15:36:15
Yeah Coxon had a big girlie following here but I dunno with the Blur hook up he
seems to have done a Rivers or Reznor, embourgeoisement beckons...on the other
hand Noel Gallagher quit Oasis today so he and Liam may well be at a loose end..
MarinCountyHealer   |2009-08-29 15:41:05
"when we met he said that he has eradicated 85% of
his thoughts through
meditation"

Ok, that explains his lack of emotional intelligence.
autotelic   |2009-08-29 16:03:35
exactly marin, he thought that the mind was one big problem generating factory
(and yeah well it is) but at the time of our involvement i didn't realize that
he was really fucking serious about keeping the mind out of the way at all
costs.

and believe me, he had rationalizations for his own bingeing episodes
, his attitude was, "we can do whatever we want, as long as we watch the
mind."

look i realize that i'm wallowing in the blame stage, they say
that the blame stage is the hardest stage to get out of after a break up, and of
course i have to realize that he's going through his own "blame her"
stage too.
Anonymous   |2009-08-29 16:05:33
you guys know that trent reznor is engaged to be married? guess it was one of
those love at first fuck kind of things
Anna  - no rear mirror   |2009-08-29 16:19:59
Well, from his mail to you anyone coming new to this situation could be
forgiven for thinking that your ex turned up at the table with the
best crockery and no baggage. I can just imagine him editing that
mail after he had written it replacing ' I couldn't allow myself to fall in love ' to 'I cant allow myself to fall in love ' because he was writing for effect for
himself in his ' now'.

I'm really curious to know if his
last wife's suicidal thoughts diminished after she divorced him as he
strikes me as the one most in need of help of the psychiatric kind.
Bjorn   |2009-08-29 16:42:42
Reznor probably got hooked up for all the wrong reasons, a lot of these ageing
rock stars suddenly pair up on impulse, its like they suddenly feel the need to
renounce their insular or profligate ways and sink into the morass of
relational tedium like everyone else .

Maybe they feel they'll miss out on
some exquisite mere mortal suffering if they remain aloof.....

I wonder if
Reznor is parked up in the den with the lucky lady right now holding her close
as they watch Ted Kennedy's memorial service with wet eyes on the 120"
widescreen tv.
autotelic   |2009-08-29 16:39:15
what perplexes me most is how 3 hours before he decided to break up with me, he
cared deeply for me, but once he made the decision to terminate the
relationship, he also decided that suddenly he would not allow himself to care
for me anymore, in other words the clean break, but, if he's honest with
himself, he has to realize that he would have tolerated my suicidal thoughts if
I had chosen to go over to his house and fuck the pain away, instead of asking
for my own space for a few days.
Anonymous   |2009-08-29 16:41:22
reznor got engaged immediately after meeting mariqueen, there was no courtship
MarinCountyHealer   |2009-08-29 16:51:31
At the retreat we often say that 'Care follows love not the other way round.'


And in my experience people who think more than they feel simply care about
the impact of their thoughts and precious little else.
an old friend   |2009-08-30 02:30:27
well i think we've reached a point with this blog where too many contradictions
are starting to surface all at once, i know it might feel kind of lame to use
the 12 steps as a way to run your life, but at this point i think it would
really help....

you know how the saying goes, 'insanity is doing the same
thing over and over again hoping for a different result.'
jillian   |2009-08-30 02:40:54
well there's another old saying that goes like this:

"If you see a man
sleeping, don't try to wake him from his slumber, because he doesn't want you to
try and wake him up."

Autotelic: don't get too hung up trying to figure
out if this guy learned anything useful from you that he can take into his next
relationship, it sounds like you learned plenty, and you're willing to take
responsibility for it.

Besides, you don't sound like the once desperate girl
that started this website, we're all too jaded for desperation, are we not?
vinny   |2009-08-30 03:13:07
and if you're having a hard time moving beyond the blame stage, you can always
attend an al-anon meeting.
jillian   |2009-08-30 03:32:08
how bout a pic with you surrounded by all your self-help books?

come on,
admit it, you were secretly relieved when he dumped you, and the reason why you
were struggling with suicidal ideation during the time that you were with him is
because your free-spirited nature was pinned to the wall and you were forced to
ask yourself, 'is this it?'

you realize that some men think that this cry for
help is really just a ploy to drive them away?
frank  - ridiculous   |2009-08-30 03:41:38
you women are just oh so precious, you ALWAYS assume that you'll be the ones to
do the dumping, and then when you get dumped, you end up writing a long winded
blog about it, and everyone gathers round to comfort the victim during the
funeral, men never write blogs like this when they get dumped.

You got
dumped, so fucking what?
Get over it!

Can we please move beyond the
drama?
Please?
frank   |2009-08-30 03:59:11
oh, and if he cared deeply for you when you were going to his house and making
him feel like a man, and then he suddenly ceased caring for you when you stopped
going to his house and making him feel like a man, what does that tell you?

I
really had to laugh when you said that you found that to be so
perplexing.

duh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!
autotelic   |2009-08-30 04:43:19
no worries frank, I figured it out before you mentioned it, the funeral is over,
and now i might get the chance to meet a new man!!!
but i promise, i promise, i
promise, i promise, that i'll let the 12 steps guide me every hypervigilant
stride of the way.

wait a minute, i'm borderline, wasn't i recently quoted as
saying that i come bearing broken promises?
LAwoman  - Trent Reznor Rocks   |2009-08-30 12:45:28
It's typical that you feel you have to jump all over Trent Reznor for finding
his soulmate and making a very public display of the power of love. No wonder
your ex felt that his relationship with you had crossed the futility boundary,
you guys are just way too fucked up to even begin to understand why emotional
stability has been such a successful adaption for the rest of the species.
Angie  - She's Not Comn Back Frank   |2009-08-30 13:11:18
Now I've seen fucking everything! Frank you're a total hypocrite! You've been
crying yourself to sleep and eating take away pizzas off the floor ever since
your wife walked out with the kids in the mid 90's and now you're badmouthing
autotelic for how she's trying to handle her situation? Get a fucking grip!
Bjorn   |2009-08-30 15:06:05
If we're going to explore the hilarious tragedy of it all then spare a thought
for the long suffering ex, you know the would be zen master who stoicly wrote
about couples breaking up every second of the day. I bet he's really fucking
struggling to reconcile his eating disorder and cosmic prowess this weekend as
it gradually sinks in that the instant little lady of his dreams has eluded
him once again.
Anonymous   |2009-08-30 15:17:01
I agree with LA woman, you guys are really fucked up, you'll probably take all
your rationalizations, EVIL humor, and defense mechanisms into the 12 step
meetings, and you'll quickly find out the group won't stand for it, I hate to
break it to you, but this website DOES NOT reflect how the real world
works.

But I do encourage you to go to a meeting, cause you need a judge and
a jury to tell you that you're all wrong, you'll find out.
ThePleasantVlleKid  - suicidal ideation for dummies   |2009-08-30 15:26:20
Why bother trying to learn from failed relationships when its much easier to
just bulshit in one's social profile?

I'm planning on using that 'I've
mediatated 85% my ego away ' line in my next Craigslist ad.
jillian  - you'll never get to heaven if you break my heart   |2009-08-30 15:30:04
some of us are really exhausted trying to deal with the limitations of the
emotional male brain, how many women have been left by men that didn't
understand chronic existential energy patterns?
Frank   |2009-08-30 15:30:46
The AA group in Queens took out an injunction against me when the family
counselling broke down and Linda and I took our drunken fights there. You're
right Angie, I still miss the good times.
autotelic  - the preservation of reason   |2009-08-30 15:36:52
LA woman said:

"you guys are just way too fucked up to even begin to understand why
emotional
stability has been such a successful adaption for the rest
of the species."

No, we just believe in the importance of
critical thinking, we might be damaged, but at least we're processed.
LAwoman  - genes for jesus   |2009-08-30 15:50:46
There are no prizes for critically thinking oneself outside of society.
a former friend  - clowns-clowns-clowns-and more clowns   |2009-08-30 15:56:18
time and time again you guys refuse to take life seriously, and guess what? I
have a hard time trying to respect you for that.

where's your fucking
integrity? So what, you've transcended mere mortal desperation and elevated
yourselves to a permanent degenerate state of being, that's easy, anyone can do
that.
BiloxiBabe  - RE Clowns, Clowns and Clowns   |2009-08-31 01:08:24
Way to go dude on the importance of avoiding moral degenerates , why reward
people for their nihilistic behaviour I say. Personally, I have travelled a
very long way since my first course in anger management , including opting to
surround myself with a more positive and life affirming class of friends. I
dont mind admitting that these days I practically devour any self help book that
I think will help me achieve and enhance the good life. I want to live life to
the hilt! Right now I'm reading a book on neuroscience that explains how
yawning helps to exercise the brain and make one more empathetic. You can bet I
am going to take this new enhancement technique into my next relationship, I
just need to do a little more work on the timing.
autotelic   |2009-08-31 03:59:16
at least with me and my friends, what you see is what you get
Bjorn   |2009-08-31 04:48:17
The integrity which you take such great pride in as one of the Masters of Being
is a conditioned response , nothing more than a consistency of shared values,
beliefs and expectations invested in you from the outset which you've naturally
been able to embrace and reproduce to more or less guarantee the comfortable
survival of you and yours.
TMfocus  - meditate for change   |2009-08-31 13:39:23
Class awareness is the greatest stumbling block to developing real
consciousness.
Frank   |2009-08-31 13:54:43
Bulshit! We're not simply shackled in spirit, the chains are out there!
autotelic   |2009-08-31 14:05:30
TMfOCUS:

hmm, that's what my ex said, I would get dressed in the morning, put
on my outfit for the day, smile at him and say, "when you look at me you
can't tell that I'm a clinically depressed working class girl can
you?"

and he would say, "you just look like a very stylish woman, you
remind me of a female Bruce Lee. I'm jealous of your incredibly strong arms and
hands."
autotelic   |2009-08-31 14:10:42
another funny thing about his OCD tendencies is that he would go to the gym
just to use the handbike to develop his arms, because, in his words, "Andy Warhol said that all you really need is one really
well-developed muscle."

I'm not picking on him. I just remember
laughing my head off when he said that.
ThePleasantVlleKid  - single parent   |2009-08-31 14:20:09
I met this really cool chick with her kid in the magazine section of the local
library yesterday and we quickly got to talking about art and seemed to get on
so I plucked up the nerve to ask if she wanted to catch the new Tarantino movie
with me sometime and she just came right out and said she didn't date across
class lines. I'm going to hang out at the library for a few days as I'd like to
see her again .
Anna   |2009-08-31 14:29:50
The middle classes have always had nightmares about strong working class
hands. Perhaps the guy saw you as a threat to his intellect
autotelic   |2009-08-31 14:42:35
there is a difference between being intellectual and being intelligent, my ex
had read lots and lots and lots of books, and he would always ask me, "have
you read such and such a book?", and I would often say no, or "yes I
have, but I forgot what it was about, and I forgot the names of the
characters." He was also really into B movies from the 80's, and as a
matter of trivia I told him that I did extra work for a Roger Corman film in
1989, it's just that I couldn't remember what the name of the movie
was!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We had quite a few uncomfortable moments like that.

I
guess 'The Naked Ape' is another one of those books that we're all supposed to
have read.
MarinCountyHealer   |2009-08-31 16:17:48
The spiritually intelligent only need to read one book.
Anna  - Reading People   |2009-08-31 16:33:11
From what you've posted so far your ex comes across as having a really bright
and cultured middle class persona. OCD types are usually pretty guarded so to
what extent did you get to know the person behind the mask?
autotelic   |2009-08-31 16:48:43
well, when I first met him he said, "At first I got really nervous thinking
about how smart and pretty you are, and how much you have to offer." But
then when I got to know him I became very intimidated because he was such an
intellectual monster, and when he got drunk he could take the stage like an
actor and quote an entire book! But, in the end, I realize that I've had much
more life experience than he has, cause even though he was married twice, he
never really knew much about intimacy communication. His second wife had a
masters in literature, so they pretty much spent 7 years talking about books.
They never fought, and they never bothered talking about the relationship. So
when he asked me what my favorite plays were all I could say was 'Candide' and
'Waiting For Godot'. And then when he asked me what my favorite book was all I
could say was 'Steppenwolf' And guess what? Turns out that's the only book
that he's never read. So the name Harry Haller was new to him. Kind of
ironic.

But in order to make me feel better I guess, when he broke up with me
and we spoke on the phone one last time he said "You're the most intelligent
person I've ever met." I don't know if he was trying to say that it will
never work because I'm too intelligent to be in a relationship, I just don't
know.
autotelic   |2009-09-01 02:36:55
OCD types are very guarded. One time I said to him, "you have some very
funny, unusual quirks."
And he responded by saying "Really? I thought
that most of my quirks were hidden."

And in the beginning he said
"you realize that people with OCD and BPD have some very drastic
similarities?"

And I said "no, this is my first time with someone
that struggles with OCD, I can see that you're an extremist, and a bit of an
absolutist, but i guess i never thought in terms of some kind of parallel sister
diagnosis."
Anna   |2009-09-01 02:35:14
Right , so he tended to 'possess' knowledge rather than quickly absorb ,
process and forget information , more a borderline thing. I'm still thinking
through the idea that OCD and BPD have drastic similarities , I think both can
be ritualistic . How impulsive was this guy?
TMfocus  - meditate for change   |2009-09-01 02:45:48
Never get involved with someone with unresolved psycho-pathological issues.
autotelic   |2009-09-01 02:51:30
he was very impulsive, two weeks before he broke up with me he said, "I
would never introduce you to my parents if I didn't have the fantasy of marrying
you."

I only mentioned the stuff with all the books, because he lived
vicariously through books, he knew about the lives of characters, but he didn't
have any real experience with true human emotion, but he had hunches, through
books.
AUTOTELIC   |2009-09-01 02:56:33
TM fOCUS: ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT ME OR MY EX?

Anyway, I thought about
what you said while I was rollerblading today,

you said:

"Class awareness is the greatest stumbling block to developing
real
consciousness.

On the one hand, you're right, but on the other
hand, don't you sometimes just want to beat the shit out of those that
get through life without any bruises precisely because they refuse to have
a social conscience?
TMfocus  - meditate for change   |2009-09-01 03:16:43
Consciousness is above politics .
autotelic   |2009-09-01 03:21:31
Hey Bjorn: Have you ever read a book called 'Class' by Paul Fussell? It
probably wasn't required reading when you were studying Economics. It's the
worst book that I've ever read about the issue of class, it was written for
those that need to know exactly what to do to 'ensure' middle class
status.

It's a book that he gave me.
Angie   |2009-09-01 03:30:03
Get the fuck out of here TM, you're confusing consciousness with smug
middle class selfishness as true human consciousness opposes greed
and hatred at the individual and collective level . There's nothing
particularly rational , spiritual and objective about supporting inequality
autotelic   |2009-09-01 03:39:26
yeah Angie, you're right, what TM said is very provocative, I even started to
wonder if TMfocus is my ex, cause this is exactly how he talked.
Bjorn  - Class   |2009-09-01 03:43:54
No Autotelic , I haven't read the Fussell book but have seen similar books
around legitimizing Class privilege. I still believe that resolving Class
Conflict has to be part of any true human liberation movement.
TMfocus  - meditate for change   |2009-09-01 03:52:50
Autotelic have you ever read 'Women Driven by Malignant Self Love' by Rufus
Koelner?
autotelic   |2009-09-01 04:09:44
no, I haven't read it, but it sounds like it is probably worth reading, and if
it's available at the library I'll check it out tomorrow, thanks, definitely
sounds interesting.

Now a question for you: Have you ever done anything
useful in society, or are you just some L-A-Z-Y amoeba?
jillian  - malignant self love   |2009-09-01 04:14:26
What a hilarious title for a book! I'd even be willing to buy it.
Angie   |2009-09-01 04:16:05
Fuck you TM if anyone's a psychopath here its you!
TMfocus  - meditate for change   |2009-09-01 04:29:28
I contribute extensively through my work and with an engaged local Sangha but I
suppose I should have anticipated how quickly I'd become the target of the
emotions and projected negativity of other posters on this Borderline
site.

And Bjorn what's all this about a ' true human liberation movement?' Do
you have severe learning difficulties?....
Bjorn   |2009-09-01 05:34:41
TM,

Yeah , I suppose you could classify questioning whether certain Eastern
beliefs are radically humanistic enough to tackle global inequality as a
learning difficulty if you were that bent on looking superior. As for books, I
bet your parents read you to sleep at nights with chapters of 'The Optimistic
Child'.
Anonymous  - Burn This Book   |2009-09-01 05:58:22
"Class awareness is the greatest stumbling block to
developing
real
consciousness.

It just doesn't sound right.
HarryH   |2009-09-01 06:05:39
It isn't right, its the warcry of privileged apathy.
autotelic   |2009-09-01 14:19:44
I've said a lot about my ex, when all I really needed to say was that he
suffered from privileged apathy.
HarryH   |2009-09-01 14:52:21
There's a lot of it about. Its weird, OCD almost seems a psychological parody of
human bourgeois society, a means of heroicly internalising it . No wonder you
two clashed.
autotelic   |2009-09-01 15:01:16
you're right Harry, I had never met anyone that was such an extreme
insider/outsider, hence his comment that he thought most of his quirks were
hidden.

and guess what? He wanted to take me to disneyworld.
Anna  - towards mindless rebellion   |2009-09-01 15:06:13
There's definitely a Class basis to diagnosis .I'm pretty sure anyone who
fixates on the need for social reform or who starves herself calling for a
fairer distribution of income isn't going to get labelled with a fluffy OCD or
ED diagnosis.
autotelic   |2009-09-01 15:21:09
in retrospect, another element about his behaviour that I thought was strange
was how he never called me by my name, he referred to me as 'angel' 'sweet pea'
'sweetie' and 'pumpkin'. He never once called me Karen.

and even in our
parting conversation he said, "please know that i hold you in the highest
regard, you're a beautiful person inside and out, and that's how I will always
think of you, so let's just gather up all your things that are still in my
condo, and let me know how we should arrange the transfer, ok
sweetie?"

He even sent back a used razor blade that had been in his
shower for a week! Now that's OCD!
Anna   |2009-09-01 16:17:12
His inability to refer to you by your name is as telling as it is sad, its
avoidance if done all the time. As for returning the used razor...I guess he
could have perceived that as a lingering form of intimacy, a dull sharp bloody
feminine threat to his ritualistically cleansed and well ordered cosmos in
which you remained neatly filed away as a 'highly regarded ' collectible.
HarryH  - beyond the mickey mouse club   |2009-09-01 16:12:37
The Disneyland invite is odd, nothing wrong with Orlando but its, well, the type
of treat you offer a child. Who had the thing for Disneyland? Was he into
Fantasia? The old Disney Classics. Did this guy infantalise you as his sleeping
beauty?
autotelic   |2009-09-02 00:22:36
The whole ending was like this: (I'm paraphrasing)

"Hey Sweet Pea, you're
the most amazing person that I've ever met, now get your things, and get the
fuck out of my life."
autotelic  - blue velvet   |2009-09-02 00:28:49
probably the most memorable part of the relationship was when he pretended
he was Dennis Hopper and said, "Mommy, mommy, baby wants to fuck!"
 
It worked out perfectly
since his family said that I look so much like Isabella Rossellini.
autotelic   |2009-09-02 00:40:54
what i meant to say was that the scene from blue velvet was probably the most
memorable part of the relationship for him, it wasn't the most memorable part
for me.
vinny   |2009-09-02 00:44:43
jesus, that graham coxon song really is the most fitting video for this blog.
Bjorn   |2009-09-02 01:21:33
God I'd even forgotten that part of the Blue Velvet film. OCD types obviously
pay more attention to detail.
Angie   |2009-09-02 01:26:57
First time listening to Graham Coxon for me. Bleakness reminds me of a few
Jesus and Mary Chain numbers, definitely music to break up to.
Dr Spock   |2009-09-02 04:41:53
So what was the most memorable part of the relationship for you?
TMfocus  - meditate for change   |2009-09-02 04:52:27
Borderlines have a really flaky grasp of time, they don't get continuity and
find it difficult to recollect.
jillian   |2009-09-02 05:14:11
a lot of women blog about their break ups. I was once with a guy, just sitting
next to him on the couch, and he looked up at me and asked,"if things don't
work out between us I'm not going to have to read about it on your blog am
I?"
Anonymous   |2009-09-02 05:18:09
borderlines might not get continuity, but they are masters at
recollection.

so is TM the ex?
andrea dworkin   |2009-09-02 05:23:53
a projection is the greatest tool used for achieving true
consciousness

just for you TM 
obscure self love   |2009-09-02 05:31:50
someone with a superiority complex is lurking on the site again, and he wants to
know if I managed to find 'malignant self-love' at the library today.

(we can
only hope that this guy doesn't take himself too seriously)
autotelic   |2009-09-02 13:48:24
I've seen other women on craigslist post pics of their exes, with titles that
say "stay away from this guy", and then they'll go into all the details
of what happened.

I haven't done anything like that, no one knows his name,
no one knows what he looks like.

From my description, it just sounds like I
had an affair with the pleasantville kid, and we still don't know if he's a real
person, or a bourgeois bot.

It's almost impossible to escape scrutiny on the
web, in the past, I've had to read some nasty reviews about my own character
with links to my website, but I never cared enough to cordially ask the writers
to kindly unpublish those reviews attacking my character.

I'm not sure how
any of us processed our break-ups before the advent of the web.
vinny   |2009-09-02 13:58:10
would you be disappointed if you discovered that you had an affair with a bot?
Or worse, fell in love with a bot?

Do you think bots might be more capable of
helping us achieve emotional sobriety?
Pablo   |2009-09-02 14:45:35
So who get the first prize for acting out a masturbatory life of magical
thinking?

And the winner is: everyone on the planet, regardless of whether or
not they're actually published.
Anonymous  - re: pablo's statement   |2009-09-02 15:16:00
so then everyone is responsible for mismanaging the entire planet, and no one
has the right to request that they not be talked about in public conversations
ThePleasantVlleKid  - magical thinking   |2009-09-02 15:33:53
autotelic , I'm for real but you look like a bot in some of those pics you guys
knock out , particularly in that one of you that looks like a scene from that
old Addicted to Love video where there are three of you.

I wonder if the self
drive cars they are working on at the moment are going to come preloaded with
masturbatory fantasies.
Angie   |2009-09-02 15:42:33
I'm concerned about bots putting me out of work .There again, sex bots will be
middle class toys for a while before regular working Joe's will be able to hire
them.
TMfocus  - meditate for change   |2009-09-02 16:32:28
Funny that you should mention projection as lets face it, those of us of stable
personality and good character really have absolutely nothing to fear from the
web but the dawning age of perfect information obviously poses a threat to the
survival of all the hidden BPD's in our midst.
Frank  - In Praise of the Immortal Fuck   |2009-09-02 16:11:51
Sex with hot robots is a great idea , particularly from my post prime and
seriously economically challenged perspective, but isn't there a real danger
that regular sex bot use - male or female - will alienate us further from our
animal instincts , weaken sex drive through removing all inhibition and pent up
desire and ultimately threaten reproduction of the species.
samsara vortex   |2009-09-03 01:23:30
Tm said:

"Funny that you should mention projection as lets face it,
those of us of stable
personality and good character really
have absolutely nothing to fear from the
web but the dawning age of
perfect information obviously poses a threat to the
survival of all the
hidden BPD's in our midst."

....you don't fucking get it, how many times do you have to read the
Chogyam Trungpa books before it sinks in?
Anonymous   |2009-09-03 01:26:57
Frank, good God, don't you realize that what we need more than anything is a
viable threat to the reproduction of the species.
TMfocus  - meditate for change   |2009-09-03 01:31:34
I get it however in my book , reputable teachers should be above substance
abuse but of course, lowering the bar is ever the way for those dogged by poor
character and bad karma.
Angie   |2009-09-03 01:40:06
TM your perfect wisdom is really starting to fucking irritate.
autotelic  - crazy wisdom   |2009-09-03 01:41:16
TM: ARE YOU MY EX? IF SO, WHY DID YOU MAKE EXCUSES FOR YOUR OWN ADDICTIVE
BEHAVIOR? I DON'T THINK YOU UNDERSTAND CHOGYAM'S TEACHINGS. YOU WERE REALLY
ONLY INTERESTED IN HIS DRUNKEN, BURPING YOU TUBE VIDEOS, CORRECT?
autotelic  - note for admin #1   |2009-09-03 01:45:38
can you get the IP address on TM? iF it's not from the state that I live in
then I don't give a fuck who he is, but if it comes from the town that I reside
in, I want to know.
desik   |2009-09-03 01:58:09
TM is not from your state. Think he's the guy who used to post as NamVet
autotelic   |2009-09-03 02:04:23
oh, ok, thanks, he just irritates in the same exact way that my ex did: that
whole 'warcry of privileged apathy'

so, if he wants to keep wanking, let him,
maybe he'll actually burn out his ego here, cause he's not accomplishing too
much at his sangha.
FMfocus  - meditate for change   |2009-09-03 02:34:08
A lot of people from the Sangha are holidaying at the moment with their families
but at least we try to make a difference. I won't respond to bad language in
future so could we please keep things civil people. Thanks.
crazy wisdom   |2009-09-03 02:45:22
it's very difficult for a dharma punk to stop cussing like a sailor, chogyam got
to keep his booze and vice, and I get to keep my potty mouth.
jillian   |2009-09-03 03:03:22
same path, different styles, we all get to die alone, and ooh TM, ooh la-la,
none of us know when or how we're going to die.

and in terms of bad karma,
that's probably the least of my worries, or of most of the people that post
here, cause remember, we're the ones with a social conscience,
hehehehehehehe.

So if you're neurotically concerned about your next bardo
state, you might want to reconsider saying things like, "True consciousness
is above politics."
Anonymous  - Don't Burn This Book!   |2009-09-03 03:36:10
what a lot of these old, stodgy, sangha wash outs don't realize is that
politically correct behavior will not guarantee a pleasant rebirth,
I mean
come on, they only act politically correct because they're hoping that their
egos will be rewarded for it next time around.

so they try to say the
mantra: 'Kill my ego now', it's very forced, because they also have a louder
voice that says, 'Fat, happy, warm, fuzzy, well-fed ego now'
sarah   |2009-09-03 04:31:09
It's harsh, but no more harsh than Chogyam, but I think he had a smoother
delivery, and 'serious middle class' audience members depend on smooth
deliveries for their survival.
TMfocus  - meditate for change   |2009-09-03 05:40:38
It must really hurt you guys to know that so many people are just naturally
mindful of their every step and breath and seldom get the intricate social
footwork wrong. You borderlines are led by your emotions, the paleomammalian
brain dominates , its really sad, you lost the genetic lottery. You flunked as
human beings.
Frank   |2009-09-03 05:49:19
If you are truly representative of those who've won the genetic lottery TM then
autotelic's right, the species really isn't worth fucking saving.
Dr Spock   |2009-09-03 06:05:43
"serious middle class' audience members depend on smooth deliveries for
their survival."

they do and they are exquisitely polite to one another
as deliverance is achieved through saved face
ThePleasantVlleKid   |2009-09-03 06:33:12
Saw that chick at the library again today. I tried to make smalltalk but she cut
me off to emote about California passing a law to ensure that farm animals have
enough space to turn around and lie down. I felt compelled to pretend I was a
vegetarian but now feel guilty for lying. Should I risk being honest about
being a carnivore?
Angie   |2009-09-03 06:48:58
Today I had this client who really wanted me to demean him and when it came to
payment he acted like he was the fucking Pope paying for my salvation.I just
love the fucking way these middle class types assume their hypocrisy will be
overlooked and their privileged apathy will count for all in their next lives.
autotelic  - the glorious truth   |2009-09-03 14:23:45
TM said:

"It must really hurt you guys to know that so many people
are just naturally
mindful of their every step and breath and seldom get the intricate social
footwork wrong."

sounds like my
ex, check the IP again, I just had an affair with someone that thought
like this, and he was crazier than a shithouse rat.

you can bet that
your next rebirth is gonna suck ass if you're concerned about
intricate social footwork, you're enslaved TM, maybe Angie needs to whip
your ass.

It sounds like you need a dominatrix, watch my 'meathead'
video, and just pretend that you're the guy that I'm kicking in the
balls.

So, you live your life according to Buddhist texts, but
your main concern is preservation of the ego through winning the
genetic lottery? I'm pretty sure if Chogyam was here, he would ask you to
disrobe in front of the audience, so that Angie could give ayou a
****en shower.
angel boy   |2009-09-03 14:33:31
TM you should try to get more in touch with the suffering of the other animals
and focus your meditation on love. There's no lasting sanctuary in social
privilege. None.
Angie  - ****en Shower   |2009-09-03 14:52:26
Jesus how did you guess?

That client I mentioned is exactly the type of
hypocrite who has focussed most of his life on the intricate footwork up to the
next rung, proudly smiling out of so many fucking socially perfect family and
business photographs , so fucking smug in his life of having that his only
connection with otherness is through the taste of piss. I bet the cunt even
thinks of it as pennance.
Pema   |2009-09-03 15:01:53
did you ever wonder if some people struggle with mental health issues because we
live in a world full of so much hypocrisy? From what I've seen, people that
live according to the 'hypocrisy model' are the most diseased, unhealthy people
walking the face of the earth.

the hypocrites are responsible for spoiling
and mismanaging the planet, and some sensitive witnesses turn out to be
borderline because of it.
autotelic   |2009-09-03 15:22:47
just for a little comic relief I'm going to throw in some more trivia about my
ex:

One time I came out of the shower and he was watching Three's Company (he
has every episode on DVD). He looked up at me and said, "As far as I'm
concerned it's still 1982 and Ronald Reagan is still president. I don't know if
you noticed, but I got most of my interior design ideas from Three's
Company."

And as usual, I just started laughing my head off, mainly
because it wasn't supposed to be funny. He was as serious as serious can be.
Angie   |2009-09-03 15:36:37
Yeah, some suffer disproportionately because of the fancy footwork of the
cleverer apes as we all live out there on the same ledge. Your ex was obviously
used to making his stretch of the ledge as comfortable as possible for himself,
forever 1982, I wonder what stupendous events happened that year to enourage him
to permanently retreat in it, maybe he came into too close proximity with the
non bourgeoise other, maybe he caught a glimpse of th yawning void and just
froze
Anonymous  - mismanaging the planet   |2009-09-04 01:41:59
What astounds me is that the rich go getters , who portray themselves as the
most rational people, care the least about the planet and the survival of the
species, more often than not suicides care more.

To me, that speaks realms
for the sick fucking world we live in.
Only registered users can write comments!

3.20 Copyright (C) 2007 Alain Georgette / Copyright (C) 2006 Frantisek Hliva. All rights reserved."


place your links here

hey it costs some to keep this site going so if you have a dollar or two to spare we would sure appreciate it. Click Here to DonatemfBeer Joomla! Plugin
Last Updated ( Tuesday, 25 August 2009 )
 
< Prev   Next >
[ Back ]
kissy.jpg

Reality Check

"I wish that every human life might be pure transparent freedom."

Simone de Beauvoir

Sign in or Register

Main Menu

Blog
about
Archive
st karen
Music
Contact Us
Search
Links

already   and    another   around   away   being   billion   climate   countries   crisis   death   development   dont   drugs   economic   economy   fucking   future   global   going   government   health   help   isnt   life   living   money   not   percent   policy   poverty   prices   really   report   social   the    used   war   within   years    the  

Created with AkoCloud 1.1 final.

Related Items

Syndicate