the probability of landing that winning line stays the same no matter how many times you play
_POSTED_BY desik   
Thursday, 01 October 2009
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Comments
Buzz Lightyear   |2009-10-01 03:15:52
I've got a sneaking suspicion that some people are carrying over their winnings
from one life to the next..
desik   |2009-10-01 03:36:02
I've reached the stage where i'm certainly starting to feel uncomfortable
J   |2009-10-01 03:39:53
the impersonal is starting to feel pretty personal
D   |2009-10-01 03:50:31
yeah, life has this way of making discomfort feel intimate .
D   |2009-10-01 12:28:06
Last night I watched 'The Secret Life of Twins' a documentary exploring the nature vs nurture
debate that suggested that attitudes towards issues like risk,  belief
in the supernatural and adultery - that is, decisions we would normally
put down to personality /environmental factors - were up to 40% genetically determined.

At one point there was a
discussion by a set of identical twins on whether genes were "an iron cage that constrains all choices "

It left me
wondering what processing decisions would be 'consciously' like for
those whose genes , for one reason or another , largely prompted
inconsistency and resistance to any degree of conformity and obedience
to environmental cues.
TMfocus  - meditate for change   |2009-10-02 00:10:35
Here we go again, look, genes can effect life events but life events can effect
gene expression. Concentrate! Think outside the cage of your borderline
personality disorder , we're more than ' thinking machines' or at least most of
us are.
Frank   |2009-10-01 12:39:55
Class is the Elephant in the Room in a lot of discussion around the
nature/nurture debate as it's the process routinely used to transfer material
wealth and advantage across life-times and you don't have to fuck around on the
molecular level to see it but you do need to look.
LevitatingCreep   |2009-10-01 13:07:26
Whilst its true that Class is a great bulwark against a lot of material
uncertainty out there in the culture I'm not sure it can be automatically relied
upon as a natural defence against deep spiritual existential crisis as being
able to afford to check in to the 108-day retreat at the Orange Blossom Instant
Sunshine ranch up at Tahoe doesn't necessarily mean its gonna be of any fucking
help. Please, lets not deprive the filthy rich and powerful of their mortal
terrors as they deserve that shit a lot more than we do!.
autotelic   |2009-10-01 15:17:37
If only i had been born with red fiery hair, like I have in the picture.
autotelic   |2009-10-01 15:25:05
Concentrate! Think outside the cage of your borderline
personality
disorder , we're more than ' thinking machines' or at least most
of
us are.

Everyone should be required to think about and review
their family tree, if people did this, they might be less willing to
transfer their own genetic material.

No one on this planet is healthy enough to breed with.

Too bad, so sad,
that most people are too ignorant to realize this.
Buzz Lightyear   |2009-10-01 16:19:03
If only i had been born with red fiery hair, like I have in the
picture.

If you'd been born with two copies of the relevant recessive
gene you would have been.

I was and to be honest my fiery red hair
just led to me being called names and bullied. Mind you I was also fat and
repulsive like my parents but hey I got their smarts.....
TMfocus  - meditate for change   |2009-10-01 16:19:59
No one on this planet is healthy enough to breed with.

Such casual
utter contempt!

That's why I pray my kids never get emotionally
involved in any way with a borderline. You guys sicken society,
you're genetic dead weight.
Angie   |2009-10-01 16:27:45
You look really cool Red autotelic
autotelic   |2009-10-01 16:47:41
Such casual utter contempt!

what are you fucking talking about? Look
into your family tree, trace it back, sorry dude, but there is
no substantial argument that can dispute what I've said, no one on
this planet is healthy enough to breed.

Everyone has fooled themselves.
TMfocus  - meditate for change   |2009-10-01 18:17:05
That's a cruel and nihilist outlook! We all share the same family tree and there
are a billions of decent and proud parents of healthy children on the planet
.Without breeding there would be no future for us.

You guys disgust me.
Frank   |2009-10-02 00:00:38
Right! I'm really struggling to imagine life without you.... how would we cope?
SH     |2009-10-02 00:13:13
What are you trying to say? That animals are more evolved than we are? And who
is winning?

Endless stupidity is right!!!
TMfocus  - meditate for change   |2009-10-02 01:27:04
"I'm really struggling to imagine life without you."

That's a hurtful
response Frank , it really is but it's worth the struggle to think it through
as in our infinite number of lives all beings have been a parent to us at some
point and showed us kindness too.
autotelic   |2009-10-02 02:25:19
TM, none of the world's problems have anything to do with how I feel about
things. You need to start looking at the bottom line, more people means more
suffering, means more angry people eating more angry animals.
autotelic   |2009-10-02 02:30:35
I don't care about people, I care about plants and animals. I don't think the
humans should be entitled to a future here.

It's all killing
me!

"Every new pregnancy endangers the planet"!
autotelic   |2009-10-02 02:42:36
I said:
I don't care about people

But I probably care more about human
suffering than most of the people I've ever come in contact with.
Anna   |2009-10-02 14:32:55
Wholeheartedly agree with the conclusions drawn  by autotelic , if it were just human suffering involved I might reconsider but it
isn't.

As a species we have become the cause of so much unecessary
suffering for other animals and the singlemost destructive force on
the planet. This violence and destruction is perpetuated and exacerbated by
human reproduction.
TMfocus  - meditate for change   |2009-10-02 14:36:10
Believe me, I have no objections whatsoever to you guys taking yourselves out of
the gene pool but your scathing anti-human diatribes are basically fascist.
ThePleasantvilleKid   |2009-10-02 14:40:09
Fascist????

Tell me, what do you label the routine process of human beings
polluting and destroying the planet and driving other species into extinction?


Pleasantly Complimentary?
Kimi   |2009-10-02 14:44:57
Hi guys, I don't do politics but the chimp looks cute:-)

Is anyone else here
looking for a lasting relationship?
Anonymous   |2009-10-02 15:16:32
TM , it really doesn't matter how fiercely and self-deceivingly you cling to
abundance theory it will never alter the tragic fact that everything we rely on
for our survival is finite. We're about through dude. Learn to quietly accept
this.
autotelic   |2009-10-02 16:11:49
Hi guys, I don't do politics but the chimp looks cute:-)

Every time I
look at the chimp, I wish he was my roommate, I can tell by looking at
him, that he agrees with what we're saying here.
NamVet   |2009-10-02 16:12:11
My God! We have REAL HEROES SACRIFICING THEIR LIVES TO PROTECT OUR HARD WON
FREEDOMS as you SUBHUMAN ASSHOLES WISH US DEAD under the guise of protecting the
planet.

FUCK YOU AUTOMATIC!!!

WE'LL PROTECT THE PLANET FROM PEOPLE LIKE
YOU JUST YOU WAIT AND SEE!!
Kimi   |2009-10-02 16:18:41
Every time I look at the chimp, I wish he was my roommate

Hey, back
off! I saw him first.
autotelic   |2009-10-02 16:20:13
NAMVET,

I've been driven mad because so many of you are crazy!

Stocking
up on ammunition, afraid of civil war?

Get some meds for your paranoia!
Angie   |2009-10-03 10:58:26
The Chimp looks pretty much as if he's reconciled to the fact that all existence
is cyclic and there's no escape.
NamVet   |2009-10-02 16:35:09
PRO ABORTION, GAY MARRIAGE , ANTI-CHRISTMAS AND NOW ANTI-LIFE- HOW THE FUCK DID
WE CREATE YOU PEOPLE?

I FOUGHT FOR MY COUNTRY WHEN I WAS YOUR AGE
AUTOMOTIVE, WHAT THE FUCK HAVE YOU EVER DONE FOR ANYONE?
Aaron   |2009-10-02 17:39:06
He looks smug, like he knows we're close to an extinction event.
ThePleasantvilleKid  - destructive addictive behaviour   |2009-10-02 21:19:14
TM - you have a tendency to make the issues seem so straightforward but if you
stand back it's not that easy to figure out who has the real 'death-wish' here
. I mean, who do we want to hang out on the planet with? the dumb apes who've
had enough? or the clever apes who'll always fight for more?
TMfocus  - meditate for change   |2009-10-03 01:03:11
Don't waste your time trying to provoke me Kid as being the only one
consistently capable of a balanced view on this Borderline Personality Disorder
site I'm used to being attacked for speaking the truth and to having the
resident 'Apes' gang up on me as a minority of one.

Oh and autotelic Chimps
aren't cute at all , they are vicious little brutes but I'm sure they would
really feel at home as your room mates, like getting on with like and all that.
jillian   |2009-10-03 04:37:59
the picture is pretty funny, the chimp definitely looks like a match for freud
Dr Spock   |2009-10-03 11:07:52
Hey, Hey we're the monkeys!!!
BoredtoDeath   |2009-10-03 13:28:05

Descended from Apes or created by God ,who cares? Whichever way you look at
life its disappointing, the universe is founded upon apathy.
TMfocus  - meditate for change   |2009-10-03 12:58:01
Bulshit!!! The universe is neutral and in the game of life there is everything
to play for. Most intelligent human beings intuitively grasp this , it's our
positive attitude to risk taking that separates us from the Chimps. It's only
the Borderlines and other unhinged genetic throwbacks who view the universe as
ordered against them and they'll never land the winning line , ever, simply
because they are too fearful to bet against certain failure and loss.
Frank  - break the bank   |2009-10-03 13:24:33
TM said:

"The universe is neutral and in the game of life there is everything
to play for"


Capitalism has always obscured the extent to
which our lives are subjected to speculative greed and we've just seen what
happens when the greedy conspire to game the system and take the house
for more than it holds. Wait til the environmental bank is busted bud then
come back and tell us about our fucking evolutionary edge over the
Chimps.
Bjorn   |2009-10-04 00:02:58
It isn't just greed , future technology isnt going to be able to shield us from
our naked human vunerability, it may protect some but catastrophic systems
failure is inevitable.
TMfocus  - meditate for change   |2009-10-04 00:32:10
future technology isnt going to be able to shield us from
our naked human
vunerability

How can you possibly know that? Every new century
is heralded in by doomsayers warning of calamity and urging the dim
and impressionable to head for higher ground and prepare for rapture.


What makes you lot so different?

I am honestly not losing any
sleep at night over these dire predictions about the future of the planet
as the Global Warming threat is largely being talked up by the
sensationalist media and people with enduring mental health issues.

I'm
sure my kids and their kids after them will have a bright future and
look back and laugh at all this doomladen hysteria and nonsense.
Anna   |2009-10-04 00:51:07
As long as you and your family get to sleep easy at night TM , that's the main
thing.
thriftstoregal   |2009-10-04 00:58:15
It's a pity the other great apes can't talk to us as I'd like to know if they
have any supernatural beliefs.
Helen   |2009-10-04 15:58:59
The more I read here the more obvious it becomes that you guys really have no
right to be unhappy.
HeadbandMichael   |2009-10-04 15:44:15
Thanks to RSCJ JusticeNet for link to this. The original kinda had the edge for
me but hey that's just my opinion .....
TMfocus  - meditate for change   |2009-10-04 15:58:19
If that's what saving the planet sounds like I'd prefer mass extinction !
Hippies!!!
autotelic   |2009-10-04 16:14:50
The more I read here the more obvious it becomes that you guys really have
no
right to be unhappy.

What do you mean exactly?
autotelic   |2009-10-04 17:28:54
Hippies!!!

Stop calling us hippies,
I'm not a hippie,
hippies have
friends.

Oh yeah, hippies have hope too.
Helen   |2009-10-05 00:08:47
What do I mean? Well , to put it bluntly , that the majority of comments I've
read here seem to come from a sense of entitlement that knows no bounds.
Frank   |2009-10-05 00:03:22
I saw a piece in the NY Times a few months back about a lot of the old well
known 60's Hippies drinking themselves to death or offing themselves with
prescription drugs. I think they probably felt starved of free love.
Angie   |2009-10-05 00:12:46
Did the hippie generation actually get that much Free Love?
MarinCountyHealer   |2009-10-05 01:03:04

Autotelic I'd like to be your friend if you're short and Frank don't believe
all you read as Marin County is still a mecca and haven for old hardcore
Hippies from the 60's scene. A lot of them have different drug problems now
though , they cant afford their meds .They're probably a bit light on hope
too
ThePleasantvilleKid   |2009-10-05 00:50:38
"the majority of comments I've
read here seem to come from a sense of
entitlement that knows no bounds."

Yeah that TM pisses me off
too. So reminds me of how my dad was before his mental breakdown .
NoFuture   |2009-10-05 01:30:20
I'm sorry but I just can't empathise with ageing fucking Hippies as they're
mostly bourgeoise idealists. ' Better to burn out than fade away'? Bulshit! I wonder how many of them
will make 100.
autotelic  - Morrissey   |2009-10-05 02:49:44
I borrowed a copy of Morrissey's 'Years of Refusal' from the library, what a
gem! Can't believe I didn't rush out to hear it when it was released, nothing
is more satisfying than listening to an ageing Morrissey
speak!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Damn! It's so interesting to listen to his thoughts on
forgiveness, ('sorry doesn't help')goodbyes, and how he's throwing his arms
around paris because no one wants his love.

He's reached the same conclusions
that I have about everything. I related to him when I was young, and now that
he's aged I understand him even more.

What a guy, if I was still writing
lyrics, my words would sound exactly like his.

His famous nuanced last words
are spot on.
Anonymous  - Goodbye Becomes Farewell   |2009-10-05 02:58:58
"the smiling children
will tell you that you smell,
well look at me,
a savage beast,
I've got nothing to sell."

Morrissey
Vinny   |2009-10-05 03:25:13
They're probably a bit light on hope
too

Ouch, hippies without hope
sounds far more tragic than an autotelic or Morrissey without hope,
it's almost too embarrassing and uncomfortable to think about.

You gotta
wish them well though, the peeps that never adapted to a loveless
world.
V   |2009-10-05 03:33:24
I think they probably felt starved of free love.

another form of
victimhood no doubt, EVERYONE WANTS TO BE VALIDATED.
Anonymous   |2009-10-05 03:48:43
YOU GUYS ARE SUCH ASSHOLES
asshole   |2009-10-05 04:24:34
Wonder if anon is a former friend, or a random stranger from flickr or reuters?
Vinny   |2009-10-05 04:33:40
Is this an asshole thing to say?

You gotta wish them well though, the peeps that never
adapted to a
loveless world.
autotelic   |2009-10-05 05:00:32
Vinny, it's not an asshole thing to say, it's like saying that santa claus
doesn't exist.

We are spoilsports for some.

And Morrissey's album fills me
with inexplicable joy.
Bjorn   |2009-10-05 10:18:35
Morrissey is a siren, his lyrics about our bleak prospects for love and
redemption and the flaying and flailings of the once sanctified human spirit are
pure prophecy .
Anonymous   |2009-10-05 13:01:20
Morrisey is an old whining fag!
D   |2009-10-05 13:15:54
Oh you're just jealous Anon whereas Morrisey just has a way of scything
through the realm of ego and crooning the stories of our lives.

"I was
wasting my time
Praying for love
For a love that never comes
From someone who
does not exist"
autotelic   |2009-10-05 14:20:23
Morrisey is an old whining fag!

Does it matter?
He's such a
man,
worthy of wearing a 'world's greatest lover' t-shirt, he just
gets better with the passage of time.
Radioslag   |2009-10-06 02:36:51
I'm also grateful for Morrisey being around and carrying the torch for so long
as he knows all about the humourous futility of human endeavor . He's always
made feeling down feel ok for me. I'm wondering if he's moving towards closure.
Dr Spock   |2009-10-06 02:58:20
Morrisey is probably the closest performing artist we have to Brecht and Weil,
I just wonder if he will ever find his Lotte Lenya....
Anonymous   |2009-10-06 03:12:13
You think I dont know that Morrisey stuff is aimed at my situation?

YOU
REALLY ARE ASSHOLES!
TMfocus  - meditate for change   |2009-10-07 02:40:33
And Morrissey's album fills me with inexplicable joy.

Inexplicable? I'd
hazzard a guess that you guys get off on listening to Morrissey's
albums because he consistently churns out the most awful self-pitiful dirges about the most terrible and neurotic
things for the most shallow , depressed and sexually inadequate people
like himself .

Am I getting warm dear?
Angie   |2009-10-06 13:06:20
TM ...wake up!!!! one can only jerk off so many times to the Spice Girls .....
autotelic   |2009-10-06 14:08:35
I'm wondering if he's moving towards closure.

I get the impression that
he has, listening to 'Years of Refusal' has encouraged me to try and
let go even more.

....But, in 'Sorry Doesn't Help', he admits that the
act of forgiveness is beyond him.

I'm now reading a book called
'Dare To Forgive'

I'm also reading a book called 'The Sociopath Next
Door', on the cover it says,
"1 in 25 ordinary Americans has no conscience and can do anything at
all without feeling guilty.  Who is the devil you know?"
autotelic   |2009-10-06 14:16:34
One of the lines, in one of my songs goes like this, "I fell in love with a
sociopath."

It's very painful, it's impossible to make some people care
about hurting us.

I'm kinda surprised that Morrissey never penned the words,
"You lousy sociopath, you never held me in high esteem"
Jillian   |2009-10-06 14:21:08
Dare To forgive the sociopath next door, lots of luck!
Frank  - we're all devils!   |2009-10-06 14:32:55
1 in 25 ordinary Americans has no conscience and can do anything at
all
without feeling guilty.  Who is the devil you know?

Our whole way
of life is without conscience and nobody notices - what guilt does
anyone feel about how money is made in society, how killings are made on
Wall Street about how we profit from poverty, hunger and war? I'm
telling you psychopathic tendencies are nurtured , sought out and rewarded
in this society, we only bitch about them when someone goes postal.
Anonymous   |2009-10-06 14:35:03
i dont want your forgiveness, i dont fucking care...remember?

ASSHOLES!!!
autotelic   |2009-10-06 14:43:35
Bjorn, I'm also reading a book called 'Necessary Losses' by Judith Viorst, you
might want to read it, tis like reading 'The Denial of Death', only it's more
descriptive.
D   |2009-10-06 14:49:21
Frank has a point , there is a lot of sociopathic and psychopathic behaviour out
there that's considered normal and rewarded. There should be more societal focus
on empathy, who knows, maybe we've reached a point where it needs to be taught
in schools. I don't get off on hurting anyone, in fact it hurts enough just
being in the world.
autotelic  - American Psycho   |2009-10-06 14:51:23
If I look back on my history of intimate affairs, 95% of the people
"that I opened up to" were sociopaths.

The book that I'm
reading talks about how sociopaths are nearly impossible to recognize
at first, that's why they're so dangerous.

The book also gets into
this:

Our whole way of life is without conscience and nobody notices -
what
guilt does anyone feel about how money is made in society,
how
killings are made on Wall Street about how we profit
from poverty,
hunger and war? I'm telling you psychopathic tendencies
are nurtured ,
sought out and rewarded in this society, we only bitch
about them
when someone goes postal.
Bjorn   |2009-10-06 14:59:13
On current reading material, for most of yesterday I was stuck in group company
, it was unavoidable and I found it really hard going as everyone else was so
positive and upbeat. It was almost sickening. I jest kept quiet and stood back.
At one point there was a call for a happy group photograph. Throughtout the
ordeal I clung on to the thought of being back at home reading the book I'd just
picked up, 'Black Sun ' by Julia Kristeva. I am losing the ability to
communicate as people around me seem to be talking , thinking and being in a
whole other language .
D   |2009-10-07 02:39:24
"You lousy sociopath, you never held me in high
esteem"

Morrissey did more or less say something like this in an
interview a few years back when he confided that he had been in
a relationship with someone for two years but then they had suddenly
decided that they no longer loved him. He went on to say that he hoped
that person had really cared for him at the time. The implication was
he was never sure. Morrissey was essentially heartbroken but in his own
familiar way very self-contained about it. Maybe 'Years of Refusal'
taps into a lot of the denial around that.
A disgruntled Goat   |2009-10-06 15:29:24
Being a sociopath sounds like fun. Where do I sign up?
autotelic   |2009-10-06 15:31:01
'Throwing My Arms Around Paris' taps into a lot of pain, the horrible
realization that "no one wants my love", the expression on his face
in the video says it all, but then, switch to the video 'All you need
is me', and his delightful smile and sense of play comes
shining through.

For someone like Morrissey, or probably, the 24
out of 25 people that give every bit of who they are to another, rejection
is excrutiatingly painful.

What does it say when people don't give us a chance to love, just because
our honesty overwhelms their comfort zone?

You might as well post
'Throwing My arms around Paris', the medication was not enough to stop me
from crying during this video.

But he's sexy as hell in 'All you
need Is Me', post them both for the full comic/tragic effect.
Anonymous   |2009-10-06 16:49:11
Dear Saint Karen,

Will you ever find it in your heart to forgive me for not
knowing how to respond to your brand of incredible love? I've never met anyone
like you before, and I'll probably never experience what we had with anyone else
ever again, you're a very complex woman, and I'm a simple guy, you just leave me
speechless. It would mean a lot if you would just take me off your "burn in
hell" list, please? Jesus forgives, can't you?

I really hope I'm not one
of the guys that you consider a sociopath.
Anonymous   |2009-10-06 17:07:30
"I was a small fat child in a welfare house
there was only one thing
I ever dreamed about,
fate has just handed it to me"

Morrissey
TMfocus  - meditate for change   |2009-10-06 20:36:46
The real sociopath debate - do they exist or dont they? - never got underway here as the resident
Borderlines dominate every discussion with their endless bleating about
their pathetic lives and unrealistic dating expectations .
admin#0   |2009-10-06 21:03:20
Not sure if you wanted a new blog started with the videos , just holler if you
do. The newer All You Need is Me video is 'embedding
disabled'.
desik   |2009-10-06 21:04:04
Bjorn   |2009-10-06 21:36:04
Cut it out TM! You can take the sociopath discussion wherever you want to,
no-one is stopping you.
NamVet   |2009-10-07 01:16:49
I just watched those two videos. Has it never occured to you guys that
Morrison's lyrics scream out ' Don't listen to me I'm a fucking psychopath!!!'.
TMfocus  - meditate for change   |2009-10-07 02:38:25

NamVet has a good point but lets be polite to Mr Morrissey as nowadays we
dont call sociopaths 'psychopaths' or even sociopaths for fear of hurting their
twisted feelings .We say they have an Anti-social Personality Disorder (APD).


What meds do you think Morrissey is on for his APD?

Depakote, Topamax,
Ativan or Lithium?

He looks heavilly sedated in his videos.

What meds
are you on Bjorn? as you're obviously a real sicko.
Bjorn   |2009-10-07 01:49:29
Ha ha you're so funny TM!

If you must know I have a BPD diagnosis - relating
to developmental trauma - and I'm not taking anti-depressents or ativan at the
moment but that could change. Hope this helps.
ThePleasantvilleKid   |2009-10-07 02:48:07

Hey I just looked up the APD diagnosis on Wikipedia and realised that most of
my family are sociopaths and they're very upmarket Pleasantville, or were until
the recession exposed the fraudulent bookeeping at Dad's firm, so obviously
sociopathy's not just a working class thing. This realization is scary and the
full implications haven't sunk in yet. At least it finally gives me some insight
into why I can't deal with my emotions , always fuck up relationships and
blunder through life angry , suspicious and embittered because things aint the
way I'd like them to be.


I just thought that was all down to being a middle
class brat!

Fuck! I've just found out I'm really crazy! Man, how weird is
that?
autotelic   |2009-10-07 02:32:13
DUH!

so obviously
sociopathy's not just a working class thing. This
realization is scary and the
full implications haven't sunk in
yet. 

ps:
If we're going to keep talking about Morrissey, let's try to spell his name right.
autotelic   |2009-10-07 02:43:48
oh my god, just read the dear saint karen post, is someone finally apologizing
for heaping more loss onto my lap?
TMfocus  - meditate for change   |2009-10-07 02:46:08
DUH!

ps:
If we're going to keep talking about Morrissey, let's try to
spell his name right.

I had never heard of Morrissey before you
posted about him today and I just followed the spelling others were
using on the site. Don't be so hard on people, we have feelings too!
Dr Spock   |2009-10-07 03:15:58
It's human to forgive , it's the forgetting that's the problem, particularly
around emotional trauma .
Anonymous   |2009-10-07 03:05:32
I Googled for information on Sociopaths/APD's and discovered that on some APD
forum sites the comments were dominated by women labelling their ex's as
sociopaths. The professionals on these sites seemed happy to go along with this.
I remember reading once that the true sociopath is supposed to be pretty rare.
Does anyone have any figures?
Julian VZ   |2009-10-07 03:38:47
Who's the douche bag that said sociopaths don't exist in the poll?
TMfocus  - meditate for change   |2009-10-07 03:42:19
Probably me. I meant to hit maybe.
autotelic   |2009-10-07 03:52:27
Hey TM, I still haven't gotten my hands on a copy of 'malignant self love', but
in the book that I'm reading now about loss the author says that people that
have known a lot of loss "from the beginning" tend to have really
powerful orgasms because their need to return to wholeness is so much stronger
than the average person that has always had the luxury of taking life and others
for granted.

What do you think?
Anonymous  - assholes   |2009-10-07 03:56:07
The chimp in this pic thinks you're all a bunch of idiots for having such
ridiculous conversations.
TMfocus  - mediitate for change   |2009-10-07 04:03:35
Sex often does become a substitute for leading a whole stable , meaningful and
purposeful life and so yes, I can imagine loss driven Borderlines experience
intense orgasms with others ...say, every 3 years or so.
Bjorn   |2009-10-07 04:27:22
I can see how early experiences of loss and abandonment could intensify so many
different areas and aspects of living and how those who have learned to take
things for granted from very early on probably miss out on the intensity but
make up for it with consistency and stability over time. I would include more
intense existential suffering for the loss group too. It's a tragic trade off.
Jillian   |2009-10-07 04:56:44
I can imagine loss driven Borderlines experience
intense orgasms with
others ...say, every 3 years or so.

...always wondering who the
next encounter will be with, hope it's not gonna take another 3 years to
get there.
TMfocus  - meditate for change   |2009-10-07 11:12:37
...always wondering who the next encounter will be with, hope it's
not
gonna take another 3 years to get there.
Well keep us posted as its
always entertaining to read your borderline perspective on why others
are responsible for your romantic relationships not working.
Bjorn   |2009-10-07 12:21:34
TM , it must be very difficult for you to maintain the appearance of being a
caring partner , parent and well balanced member of your community as you are
clearly more Monster than Saint
TMfocus  - meditate for change   |2009-10-07 12:20:37
At least I'm not an emotional complexity monster Bjorn and I can effortlessly
juggle my conflicting social roles and selves with a winning smile , you
scowling Borderline Saints struggle to keep in with your own shadows !
ThePleasantvilleKid   |2009-10-07 12:24:40
'Borderline Saints ' would be a nice name for a blog.
Frank   |2009-10-07 12:46:01
"If a system of death camps were set up in the United States of the
sort we had seen in Nazi Germany, one would be able to find
sufficient personnel for those camps in any medium-sized American
town.

Stanley Milgram"


That'll be you then TMfocus, ever
the compliant and guiltless social juggler.
lola   |2009-10-07 13:02:46
Borderline Saints is already the Swedish Rockband .
TMfocus  - meditate for change   |2009-10-07 13:17:55
Hey admins, you really need to indicate in the site description and metatags
that this site is the main hub of the 'Unrepenting Narcissist Network'.
thriftstoregal   |2009-10-07 13:27:35
TM has something guys , I couldn't quite put my finger on it before but that
chimp looks very narcissistic, like it's all about him.
TheChimp   |2009-10-07 13:35:17
I'm a dumb animal for Christ's sake! Give me a fucking break!!
thriftstoregal   |2009-10-07 13:44:43
Chill out , I just meant you reminded me of my ex.
autotelic   |2009-10-07 14:23:22
I can effortlessly
juggle my conflicting social roles and selves with a
winning smile ,

...you sound just like the last sociopath that I
slept with
Anonymous  - TTGD   |2009-10-07 14:50:03
the author says that people that
have known a lot of loss "from the
beginning" tend to have really
powerful orgasms because their
need to return to wholeness is so much stronger
than the average
person that has always had the luxury of taking life and others
for
granted.

sO is that why you make for a great honeymoon?
You
must be one helluva good (fleeting) lover.
That return to wholeness
can never be sustained, even for healthy individuals
Vinny   |2009-10-07 14:56:09
who had an orgasm today holler I........

I!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anna   |2009-10-07 15:42:00
I!!!
TheChimp   |2009-10-07 15:45:05
Aye!!!
D   |2009-10-07 15:45:46
...ALMOST...
autotelic   |2009-10-07 15:55:44
Who trolled the personals today looking for their next victim of prey?

I
holler I.

Ooh, I better watch my tone, I don't want to sound
like every other "ordinary" sociopath out there.

Myabe I'll
get the chance to take a good memory and turn it into bad, since no one
knows "how to respond to my brand of
incredible love".

LMFAO!

Hey TM, good point:

Hey admins, you really need to indicate in the site description and
metatags
that this site is the main hub of the 'Unrepenting
Narcissist Network'.

We'll start working on it right away.
Jillian   |2009-10-07 16:03:12
That return to wholeness can never be
sustained, even for healthy
individuals

and that's why the mask of sanity that so many try to
wear camouflages so much dysfunction.

I slept with these fuckers,
they're shitty lovers.
Dr Spock   |2009-10-08 00:44:35

Wonder whether there ever was a ' wholeness ' to regain but sure, people
coming from a place of rejection and loss are not going to have an awful lot of
superego to constrain their ecstatic orgasms or eagerness to surrender to the
oblivion of the little death.



Question is, is it adaptive and do we need
a new bumpersticker to get the message out there?
kimi   |2009-10-07 17:04:23
Are we talking solo or assisted orgasms here or both?

Is anyone camming?
D   |2009-10-08 00:47:54

The bumpersticker is a great idea but we live in an age in which most people
feel a tremendous sense of 'entitlement' and once they realize that
borderlines experience the most intense orgasms on the planet everyone is going
to want to date a borderline if only to bolster their deluded fantasies about
their own sexual prowess.

ThePleasantvilleKid  - Rush for the Borderline   |2009-10-07 23:57:37

I've already got a new ad up on Craigslist in anticipation of the rush under
'Intensely Borderline Transient Sociopath,'Fuck Me and Chuck Me!'

For some
reason it isn't showing yet even though I posted it in the 'Guys Seeking Guys'
section as well.
TMfocus  - meditate for change   |2009-10-08 00:53:20
I trust that you're all going to focus on your karma and include your
unrepenting narcissism , lifelong churlish resentment and long list of petty
grievances in your Craiglist profiles.
LevitatingCreep   |2009-10-08 02:00:07
that's why the mask of sanity that so many try to wear camouflages so much
dysfunction.
Yes and a similar mask of smugly grinning sanity
disguises the heartbreaking dysfunctionality of the culture  but we're
much less eager to peel back and peer behind this collective mask for fear
of losing sight of all that we've been told to or convinced ourselves
we unswervingly value . In fact I wonder when was the last time we were
truly able to see ourselves for the animals we are.
D   |2009-10-08 02:06:12
The idea of early catastrophic loss intensifying orgasm has been playing on my
mind all day. Not the basic idea of loss intensifying sexual tension and
release, I dont doubt that as loss seems to intensify many other aspects of
being human too, no, its the 'why?' that bothers me, as the idea of traumatic
childhood loss propelling us towards a return to a pre-existing 'wholeness' even
at the orgasmic level just doesn't feel right unless 'wholeness' means death or
at least non-being as well.
TMfocus  - meditate for change   |2009-10-08 02:14:29
Maybe I'll get the chance to take a good memory and turn it into bad,
since no one knows "how to respond to my brand of
incredible love".

Maybe? When have you ever missed
an opportunity to turn a good memory into bad?
Bjorn  - Commercial Application   |2009-10-08 02:23:06

That information about loss intensifying orgasms really enhanced the one I
had earlier on tonight.

Is this just the power of suggestion or are we
really on to something here that we can copyright and market under the
Lifeisbrutallyunfair or maybe even Borderline Saint brand ?
admin0   |2009-10-08 03:01:21
Guys I registered with a Narcissistic Personality Disorder [NPD] Forum today
hoping to get a better insight into the condition ( beyond my own BPD driven
obsessive petty grieviences and hatred for vast swathes of humanity obviously
) and I'm baffled as the top topic was 'Is Obama an NPD ?' and beneath that were
reams of tedious posts from women diagnosing their ex's as NPD for exhibiting
traits I'd say were basically male. Maybe hardcore narcissist PD's don't have
any problems with themselves and what I've stumbled across is an NPD lynching
forum. By all accounts NPD's aren't very anti-social, I mean they seem to fit
in.


DimFlickrLight   |2009-10-08 04:09:02
This is really intense dialogue, you all know how to talk about this stuff! It's
no wonder that you can't find satisfying relationships......like Morrissey said,
"something is squeezing my skull".

!
!
!
autotelic   |2009-10-08 04:22:12
When the shoemaker's daughter has no shoes, she's bound to know a thing or two
about hypocrisy and insatiable human desire.
autotelic   |2009-10-08 04:37:48
In fact I wonder when was the last time we were truly able to
see
ourselves for the animals we are.

The last time I was in a
relationship, it didn't last because we're human, it's a pity
that enjoying food and sex isn't enough to sustain the return to
wholeness, it was very enjoyable while it lasted!

I have decided that I
can move on, and touch myself thinking about the last person I was
with, the images are still fresh and vivid, so it's pretty easy to have an
orgasm while recreating the primal abandonment scene. I didn't think
I would be able to work this out, this connection between mind, body and
broken heart, but it's working out ok.
autotelic   |2009-10-08 04:45:33
so it's
pretty easy to have an orgasm while recreating the primal
abandonment
scene.

No, I don't masturbate thinking about the day he
dumped me, but I do recreate, in my mind, our last intimate time
together, 2 days before he dumped me.

I don't know if a therapist would
say that it's unhealthy to do this, but it doesn't feel like I'm
hurting myself when I indulge. Maybe that's because I am ever so close to
forgiving him for cutting me off now that I'm finally in my prime?
Jillian   |2009-10-08 05:21:55
just don't tell him about your ongoing wank episodes, and if you ever forgive
him, you'll probably want to keep that to yourself too. People often forgive
prematurely, and as you can imagine, more anger and drama is created when
forgiveness has to be retracted.

I never forgive the last person I've been
with until a new lover appears.
NamVet   |2009-10-08 05:26:59
Hey Jillian, who died and made you Anna Freud?
Jillian   |2009-10-08 05:29:44
screw you, girls talk
NamVet   |2009-10-08 05:58:39
I can see where this is going: unexpressed rage is the biggest underlying
component of the orgasm? Still pushing for the aesthetic are you? Gonna try and
squeeze out every last double entendre with your clenched fists?

"Despite
all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage."

BC
Frank   |2009-10-08 14:09:21
It's
no wonder that you can't find satisfying relationships......like
Morrissey said,
"something is squeezing my skull".


Yeah,
he goes on to pinpoint the problem precisely "
There is no love
in modern life " and the only alternative is self-medicating
oneself into a permanent state of  emotional amnesia.
autotelic   |2009-10-08 14:30:28
There is no
love in modern life

it's a rough rough realization, we
are obliged to do whatever is necessary, according to our own
particular constitution, to sublimate that need to return
to wholeness.

The meds have a way of squeezing the skull, the will,
the nature, wants to burst through, but has no mode of self-expression, so
we end up wanking to images of the last person we were with,
bittersweet.

Wish I was the chimp in the pic.
D   |2009-10-08 14:41:10
"Despite
all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage."

Well
he's definitely lived that line and you just know it's not going to end
with a Reznor-like TMZ exclusive of Billy sitting on a sofa with his
arms round some homely looking chick and a close up of the pair of them
holding hands and walking off into the sunset.
autotelic   |2009-10-08 14:44:48
Gonna try and
squeeze out every last double entendre with your clenched
fists?

Wow, that's a really great line, wish I could claim it as
my own.

Anyway, I truly adore Morrissey and his post intimacy
observations, what he says now is so much more sad than when he was singing
about how the hills are alive with celibate cries.

I once did a
show in the east village, and as soon as my set was over the sound man
blasted 'You're Gonna Need Someone On YOur Side', it was so loud that
we couldn't even break down our equipment till the song was over, we
went outside and waited. It was like a major exclamation point re: my
show!
Dr Spock   |2009-10-08 15:07:53
We do more than wank over images of the last person we were with, I think we end
up partly becoming them , and vice versa, as absorption plays such a big part
in that deep need we have to try to achieve some kind of human 'completeness'.


So, somewhere out there that last sociopath you were with will be waking up
to a brooding autotelic thought of his own....
LevitatingCreep   |2009-10-08 15:29:28
It is still possible to love in the modern age, its just incredibly fucking
painful to as we have to unconditionally expose ourselves to almost certain loss
and love beyond disappointment.I can see why ativan is often the more seductive
option.
BoredtoDeath   |2009-10-08 15:49:56
Wish I was the chimp in the pic.

Man , if only we could make that
return journey , just shrug of all the responsibilities and crouch down
on all fours and lope away from human autonomy on our knuckles .Fuck
it, we're evolving in the wrong direction ! We're being used as a blind
fucking nightmarish experiment by our genes.
autotelic   |2009-10-08 16:01:24
So, somewhere out there that last sociopath you were with will be waking
up
to a brooding autotelic thought of his own....

It will probably
go something like this: "Damn her.  I can't stop thinking about the
thoughts of Rollo May. How much longer can I suppress
the daimonic?"

Of course in lighter moments it was always,
"You're like a character straight out of a Woody Allen movie".
autotelic   |2009-10-08 16:07:08
Man , if only we could make that return journey , just shrug of all
the
responsibilities and crouch down on all fours and lope away
from human autonomy on our
knuckles

I did that in my last relationship, it was awesome
beyond belief, no other opiate compares.
TMfocus  - meditate for change   |2009-10-08 16:16:32
He's more likely to be thinking ' I wonder who that psychopathic bitch is
stalking on heat now and which existential master she's bulshitting about to
reel him in '... On the other hand, he may well just be getting on with his
life.
autotelic   |2009-10-08 16:35:11
fuck off TM, you weren't there in bed with us, you have no idea how good it
was.

I let you get away with saying all sorts of untruths on this site, but
if you keep questioning the validity of my womanhood, I'll ban you from the
board.

FUCK YOU A MILLION TIMES

I'm leaving for the day now, should TM
say anything about my vagina while I'm away, I want him banned.
Backroom Boys   |2009-10-08 16:49:37
On the other hand, he may well just be getting on with
his
life.


Like you're just getting on with yours TM? ..

Dont worry
, you'll unburden yourself of your own vunerabilities and guilty
 secrets here soon enough , we know you're just dying to expose
yourself as the animal you are and that you just haven't quite figured out
an appropriate way to allow yourself to. Stick around buddy, we'll
have you scrambling round on all fours on a lead before you know it.
admin0   |2009-10-08 16:57:52
TM you've been warned before now I'm giving you Time Out from your tirades
against autotelic to reflect on how you can better articulate your sexual
frustrations on this site.

Your account has been suspended for 24 hours with
immediate effect.
Anonymous  - Censorship   |2009-10-08 22:45:56
This is censorship!!!

TM didn't do anything wrong? He never mentioned
Autotelic's vagina. Re-read his comment! You've jumped to conclusions to side
with Autotelic. How can you complain about life being brutally unfair and then
pull this shit? It's so unfair! The decision to ban TM sucks!
admin0   |2009-10-08 22:40:57
TM hasn't been ' banned '.He's just been given a short cooling off period. The
decision stands.
autotelic   |2009-10-09 05:26:17
This is censorship!!!

yep, this is censorship, things are getting very
heavy around here, and I have decided that I don't want TM joining in
for awhile.

and this is why..........

its just incredibly fucking
painful to as we have to unconditionally
expose ourselves to almost certain loss
and love
beyond disappointment

our losses in this life will continue, until
we die, this is very serious stuff to try and accept, we don't need TM's
presence on the board right now.

I wonder who that psychopathic bitch is
stalking on heat now and which
existential master she's bulshitting about to
reel him in '...

yes,
I will keep searching for yet another existential master that can
return to wholeness with me for a fleeting moment in time, while I prepare
myself for yet another loss, guess what TM? This is how life really
is.

I always wished that I was one of those countless women that has
an "emergency boyfriend" in place for when things end with the
current guy I'm with, but, tragically, I have to wait for what feels
like lifetimes in between lovers.

None of us has loved, or been
loved, the way we want and need, the search for protection from loss
isn't possible, but we'll never stop trying to find it.
autotelic   |2009-10-09 05:35:26
the search for protection
from loss isn't possible,

Actually, the
search for protection from loss never ends, but securing
absolute protection from loss is completely unattainable for
everyone.

And no one, no one, ever rests easily about it.
autotelic   |2009-10-09 05:49:22
I am disappointed beyond belief that most people don't know how to respond to
the urgency of pure love.

I'm angry too, that most people don't know anything
about real intimacy, people are so frightened of the daimonic, and that's the
most valid reason for feeling so hopeless.

I fucking hate how afraid people
are of themselves.

And I can't stand how I meet these guys that pretend
they're existential masters, at first, and then all their chicken shit glory is
revealed in the most cowardly way.

It's bullshit, and no, I ain't wanking to
images of my ex today.
Anonymous   |2009-10-09 06:11:18
Reinstate TM you ASSHOLES!!!
Anonymous   |2009-10-09 06:14:23
one asshole is more than enough around here, he had to go
Angie   |2009-10-09 06:18:30
We hear ya autotelic , exploring and coping with that recurring loss and
struggle to love beyond disappointment is way more important that any guy's
right to wave his dick around on the board. Feeling for ya sister
jillian   |2009-10-09 06:22:19
I always wished that I was one of those countless
women that has an
"emergency boyfriend" in place for when
things end with the
current guy I'm with, but, tragically, I have to wait
for what feels like
lifetimes in between lovers.

That's why I've never been able
to forgive the old guy until the new guy comes along, wish I was one
of the smart gals that had an emergency boyfriend in place too. It must be
a survival instinct for those that manage to escape being alone,
during a time when it's torture to be alone.
Julian VZ   |2009-10-09 06:29:30
Is it just me or do others here think that the chimp's presence becomes more
real with each new conversation?

Pretty trippy
LevitatingCreep   |2009-10-09 06:35:12
I fucking hate how afraid people
are of themselves.

The raw human
energy wasted on saving face and other psychic defences is collosal .
God that Chimp has every reason to smile.
Jillian   |2009-10-09 06:36:08
the chimp is the super ego, the expression on HER face says it all.
KM   |2009-10-09 06:49:28
What's the diamonic? Anything to do with el día de los muertos, I'm open to
sharing creative ideas.
Anonymous   |2009-10-09 06:48:15
Whatever sex the Chimp is its not fucking subject to the cultural super-ego
that's for sure.
Frank   |2009-10-09 06:55:38
None of us has
loved, or been loved, the way we want and need, the search
for protection
from loss isn't possible, but we'll never stop
trying to find it.

Big Pharma so wants us to believe that it has
found the best form of protection against recurring loss.
LevitatingCreep  - The 'Emergency Boyfriend'   |2009-10-09 13:43:29
It must be a survival instinct for
those that manage to escape being
alone, during a time when it's torture to
be alone.

This is what I
meant about loving beyond diasappointment, knowing that this is
exactly how it will be . But yes, people should desperately try to
escape the torture of being alone if they can precisely because
it recurs .
Julian VZ   |2009-10-09 13:45:31
So with TM gone who's covering the Emergency Boyfriend shift?
D   |2009-10-09 14:08:12
I have to wait
for what feels like
lifetimes in between lovers.

I've
got a feeling that this hints at a more terrible truth about our lives.
Anonymous   |2009-10-09 14:07:07
I swear I saw that chimp blink!
Anna   |2009-10-09 14:36:59
Loneliness does terrible damage to the ego. Just when I think I'm used to
being alone I get taken down to a more intensified level of loneliness and it
just strips away more and more of me . I hope to God this is not going to be an
eternal process.
Anonymous   |2009-10-09 14:50:28
REINSTATE TM YOU JERKS!!!
autotelic   |2009-10-09 14:53:05
So with TM gone who's covering the Emergency Boyfriend shift?

I've been
wondering what the story is with the Levitating Creep?
autotelic   |2009-10-09 14:57:34
Just when I think I'm used to
being alone I get taken down to a more
intensified level of loneliness and it
just strips away more and
more of me .

I don't want to hear TM's response to this, the loss of his opinion is something I can live with.
Angie   |2009-10-09 15:01:19
I've been wondering what the story is with the Levitating Creep?

Who
knows? Maybe the second part of Levitating creep nick is self explanatory.
D   |2009-10-09 15:06:30
the loss of his opinion is something I can live with.

Me too. Lets hope
Bjorn keeps TM caged until at least next Spring as the last thing
I need right now is more fucking existential friction.
autotelic   |2009-10-09 15:07:06
I wonder if they talk about aversion to loss in those love addiction
groups? Last Sunday an associate called me and asked, "Hey K,
my sponsor told me about a SLA group that meets today at 5, wanna
go?" I declined the offer, because I had other plans to go
rollerblading down by the river to cruise for guys.

(I've always been such a faggot.)

Instead of acting disappointed, my
associate just said, "Love addiction is pretty normal, at least
you don't need to attend NA meetings like me."
jillian   |2009-10-09 15:16:06
Screw the 12 steps, sign me up for more heartbreak and loss.

Is this what it
feels like to be a cutter?

I'm alive!
I'm alive!
Bjorn   |2009-10-09 15:24:28
I wonder if they talk about aversion to loss in those love
addiction
groups?

No idea but there's definitely an aversion to
people talking about the darker side of love as my Google
alerts include all the latest Mental Health posts and every day
lists of ominous headlines appear in my browser about debt , unemployment ,
age and a wide range of other genetic and environmental
factors causing mental health problems but I haven't seen one post
yet that suggests that love can lead to mental health issues.
Frank   |2009-10-09 15:26:26
Jillian is right, the disease is the cure.
Julian VZ   |2009-10-09 15:26:50
I declined the offer, because I had other plans to go
rollerblading down
by the river to cruise for guys.

Get yourself a t-shirt that
says "Cruising faggot", then you won't even have to open your
mouth to get your message out.
Anon   |2009-10-09 15:39:07
Julian is a cruising faggot.
Bjorn   |2009-10-09 15:50:49
I'm just about to go out and as I was getting ready I found myself momentarilly
entertaining these instant intrusive delusional micro-thoughts about meeting
some like-minded chick out there somewhere today and life moving to another
level ....sorted in a zap. Of course it's just bulshit but we're hardwired to
project it against the inside of our skulls anyway.
autotelic   |2009-10-09 16:00:21
re: waiting lifetimes in between lovers

I've got a feeling that this hints at a more terrible truth about
our
lives.

What do you mean? I just think that the Fromm's,
Becker's, and May's of the world are few and far between.

Men troll
the personals, always hoping that they'll find a hot stripper/porn star
that will be willing to attend to their needs every day for the rest
of their lives, and I'm always looking for that elusive existential master
that isn't afraid of his own shadow.

It's always about unmet needs.
Dr Spock   |2009-10-09 16:03:49
The existential masters are elusive because they are afraid of other peoples
shadows.
Julian VZ   |2009-10-09 16:12:17
Men troll the
personals, always hoping that they'll find a hot
stripper/porn star

That's a sweeping generalisation and sheer
snobbery autotelic ! I usually troll the personals looking for guys
who'll tie me up and fuck me.
autotelic   |2009-10-09 17:06:45
we all have so much to offer others, it's a crying shame that we don't get more
opportunities to express it.

The last guy I was with did offer me a
commitment, but it didn't mean anything because his willingness to communicate
and expose himself was very limited, even within the context of commitment he
had parameters in place about how much he was willing to be vulnerable.

This
is a glimpse into what most marriages look like.

That's why I say we have so
much more to offer.
V   |2009-10-09 17:22:24
Cut! If you read Julian's last line, and Autotelic's first line, you can
see the chimp wink.

I
usually troll the personals looking for guys who'll tie me up and fuck
me

we all have so much to offer others, it's a crying shame that we don't get
more
opportunities to express it.

Oh lord.
KM  - Tainted Love   |2009-10-09 17:46:08
The last guy I was with did offer me a
commitment, but it didn't mean
anything because his willingness to communicate
and expose
himself was very limited...
This
is a glimpse into what most
marriages look like.

It seems we're entering the realm of the
hypercritical here . Look most people accept second best. There it is!  The awful truth is out
and I've probably inadvertently broken a million little girls
hearts in sharing this open secret with you.
D   |2009-10-10 02:06:20
most people accept second best.
Oh come on that's lame! , most people
have certain expectations that they hold their partners to and the
'emotional openness ' autotelic expected but didn't get from her ex
boyfriend is a good example of one that few people who believe that
effective communication is central to a relationship would ever think
of as negotiable or be prepared to compromise on.Yeah , over time it does
get harder and harder to find available potential partners  who meet
our expectations but there's a law of diminishing returns and a myriad of
other factors operating away in the background too .Lets get real,it
takes two to make a relationship, that's two sets of expectations and if
the planets don't align up you can be pretty fucking sure gravity will
tear everything apart and propel the two sets of genes to the opposite ends
of the emotional universe. It's human nature !The love thing is
 probably a lot easier for chimps.
Frank   |2009-10-10 00:18:37
It doesnt help that kids are socialised into crap about fairytale princes and
princesses falling head over heels for each other and then effortlessly living
happily ever after as that gives people very little to fall back on in later
life when their fairytale soulmate turns out to be a fucking sociopath . On the
other hand there may be people out there who are desperately seeking to hook up
with sociopaths and unrepentant narcissists , who the fuck knows? All I know is
that I'm desperately lonely .
admin#0   |2009-10-10 02:01:45
Detect an ever so subtle subtle mood shift downwards on the board , can't just
be people pining for TM ...

It's been a really weird day too.

Woke like
everyone else to the news that Obama had been awarded a Nobel prize for being
himself , NASA had crashed rockets into the moon , the price of **** was going
through the roof and home foreclosure filings in the US were now occuring at a
rate of one every 13 seconds.

That last item was buried beneath the heroic
headlines - obviously - but within hours of the Obama Nobel Prize news breaking
I was listening to a guy on a radio talk show explaining a little too calmly ,
I thought, how Obama's Nobel Prize was linked to dire warnings in Revelations
about how the Anti-Christ would manifest in stricken times as a Man of Peace in
the West.

Jesus, cue the 'Smallville' themetune, somebody save me...!
Anonymous   |2009-10-10 01:59:41
Where's TM?
autotelic   |2009-10-10 02:38:23
I'd much rather get involved with someone that can't commit, but knows
about real intimacy.

It seems we're entering the realm of the hypercritical here . Look most
people accept second best. There it is! The awful truth is out and
I've probably inadvertently
broken a million little girls hearts in
sharing this open secret with you.

Are you implying that he was settling for second best, or I was settling
for second best?

Last night I said to myself, "hell, if we're
going to start banning people we might as well ban kelley
too."

This is my fucking turf, go rag about me on your own website.
autotelic   |2009-10-10 02:43:00
Kelley,

It's time for me to slander you in your guest book.

The only thing
that comes to mind is this: "I would never fuck this guy, not even for a
million bucks."

Be warned and get ready to ban my IP address.
autotelic   |2009-10-10 02:55:35
Bjorn, you should have erased kelley's comment before I had a chance to see
it.

From now on, it's all about rabid censorship.

I don't mind if people
come on here and question our cynicism, our borderline traits, or our hopelessly
fucked autonomy, but personal attacks on whether or not I was woman enough with
the men I've been involved with aren't going to be tolerated.
Anonymous   |2009-10-10 03:19:25
If you don't mind people coming here and questioning your borderline traits,
then I hope you're able to recognize that your last 3 posts were very
borderline.

Are you going to start censoring every post that triggers all
your unresolved anger?

WTF is going on?
autotelic   |2009-10-10 03:46:09
I'm fine


I recently tried to get off my meds, again, but
since there is no love in modern life, I need to keep taking the little
blue pill.

40 years of loss has been rough on me.

I came across
this quote in the book that I'm reading now:

I have loved too deeply not to hate.
Anonymous   |2009-10-10 03:53:48
When will you finally move beyond The Oedipus complex?
Margaret Mead   |2009-10-10 03:57:42
Give me a break! No one ever resolves The Oedipus  Conflict.
jillian   |2009-10-10 04:14:40
Can we change the subject just a little itty bit?

we live in an age in which most people
feel a tremendous sense of
'entitlement' and once they realize that
borderlines experience the
most intense orgasms on the planet everyone is going
to want to date
a borderline if only to bolster their deluded fantasies about
their
own sexual prowess.

......tell me about it, the stories they tell
their friends. I'm so glad I never gave consent for my lovemaking
activities to be videotaped.
Anonymous   |2009-10-10 05:12:29
Dear Levitating Creep:

Are you some kind of shaman,
or Brahmin,
or goo goo
barabagal man?

How do you channel your sexual energy?
Anonymous   |2009-10-10 05:14:54
barabajagal man, not barabagal man
Donovan   |2009-10-10 05:19:29
"Love is hot, love is hot, truth is molten"
Anonymous   |2009-10-10 05:25:58
we've already established that loss is a recurring theme, would you be willing
to swim in the cesspool of samsara with me for awhile?
LevitatingCreep   |2009-10-10 08:32:25
How do you channel your sexual energy?

These days pretty sparingly but
the recent spate of sexually charged bannings on the site has given
me a bit of a hormonal rush I might need a hand with. As the great man
said, ' In punishment there is so much that is festive'.
WalterthePenniless  - ReinstateTM!   |2009-10-10 08:42:28
You creeps. This is worse than the Stanford experiment! Autotelic's hormonal
imbalance has transformed the site from a haven of free thought into a gulag of
vicious censorship and mind control.

Oh and don't worry Bjorn you grovelling
eunuch , I'll ban myself.
Bjorn   |2009-10-10 09:25:23
Oh and don't worry Bjorn I'll ban myself.
You're so gone Walter you twisted little fuck!.
Otto   |2009-10-10 09:26:02
No one ever resolves The Oedipus Conflict
Thank god for that, I was
starting to think my incestuous desires and murderous fucking
impulses were abnormal...

I can't wait to tell mother...
D   |2009-10-10 09:25:06

I recently tried to get off my meds, again
Be careful...
I have loved too deeply not to hate.
Maybe we should look at Justice,
Punishment and Loss as it's clear people often feel their humanity
is somewhat degraded by loss and that some revenge or recompense is
due.
LevitatingCreep   |2009-10-10 09:23:08
I'd rather we stayed focussed on channeling sexual energy...
TheChimp   |2009-10-10 09:24:02
I'd rather we stayed focussed on channeling sexual energy...
It's all
related Bud, relax, you'll get yours.
Bjorn   |2009-10-10 10:54:52
Site users have so bonded with the Chimp that we're seeking guidance from a
primate expert on how to move forward to the next blogpost and pic without
triggering traumatic separation issues. I think the Chimp now has some deep
emotional attachment to the site and its users too and it would be immensely
cruel for us to just move on and ignore this. What we can say for now is that
we're more than happy to have the Chimp hang out on the site and feature in
future pics and we are also exploring the adoption process to see if there is
anyway to formalise our relationship with the Chimp as it already feels like we
go way back together and I know that a lot of you guys will be feeling the same
way too. We'll keep you posted on developments.
HLF   |2009-10-10 10:56:56
Shock the Monkey! Bring back TM!!!
autotelic   |2009-10-10 14:29:42
Autotelic's hormonal
imbalance has transformed the site from a haven of
free thought into a gulag of
vicious censorship and mind control.


There are no words to express how horny I am, all the time, every
second of the day.

I am completely despondent about how there are no men
worth responding to on any of the personal sites.

Hey Levitating
Creep, your pic gets mine.
Vinny  - The Greatest tragedy   |2009-10-10 14:46:02
There are no words to express how horny I am, all the time, every
second
of the day.

This is what happens when you allow yourself to feel
and recognize the rest of humanity's unmet needs.

You would think
that it would be easy to fuck the pain away with one of the 7
billion people on the planet.

So how come we're walking around in a
daze muttering, "I'm so depressed because there isn't anyone to have
sex with."

I so feel your pain.
jimi   |2009-10-10 15:12:46
Are you experienced?
Have you ever been experienced?
Well I have.
Jillian   |2009-10-10 15:19:26
I wasn't entirely honest
about why I left my laptop on all the time in
the motel room during
our rendervous in Albany last year


not cool! you should also be banned from the board.

you're a
fucking indiscreet animal.
autotelic   |2009-10-10 15:50:59
not cool! you should also be banned from the board.

Frank,
try to keep
the personal out of it, when making reference to other members on
the board. I always enjoy reading your rants on socialism, but any
hookups that have been arranged through this site should not be discussed
on this site.
LevitatingCreep   |2009-10-11 00:30:59
You got it autotelic. I imagine your Borderline intensity is probably on a par
with tantric consciousness . Lets touch and go there.
Julian VZ   |2009-10-11 00:53:59
I am completely despondent about how there are no
men worth responding to
on any of the personal sites.

I'm having the same problem,
the Albuquerque ads make for grim reading, the scene is so played out
I can practically tell who posted what. It's really embarassing . It's a
similar story for Santa Fe. I'm thinking of checking out the S&M
personals for Phoenix, you now how it is,  have aching needs , will
travel...
Bjorn   |2009-10-11 01:01:00
Hey can you guys turn your hormones down a little? I know its the weekend but
some of us dont stand a chance of getting any action so show a little
compassion, eh?
autotelic   |2009-10-11 02:13:02
You got it autotelic. I imagine your Borderline intensity is probably on a
par
with tantric consciousness . Lets touch and go
there.

It's still ok to flirt here, but if we ever get together,
(which we probably won't), there will be no processing of what happened on
this site.
LevitatingCreep   |2009-10-11 02:30:26
Guess I'll have to maintain my vows then.
autotelic   |2009-10-11 02:35:38
Bjorn, as a sign of good form, will you please take down Frank's
comment!

Let him email J privately.

WTF?????????

I'm not very
partial to drunks with poor impulse control.
autotelic   |2009-10-11 02:37:38
LC:

look, when I said that I'm horny all the time, I didn't really mean it.
Frank   |2009-10-11 02:44:27
Autotelic. You've really settled in to the site censor role. It's funny, I had
you down as a true Proletarian.
LevitatingCreep   |2009-10-11 03:00:10
look, when I said that I'm horny all the time, I didn't really mean
it.
Understood. But you do still get horny some of the time right?...
Now you've knocked my confidence, did you make that up about there
being no men worth responding to on any of the personal sites too?
thriftstoregal   |2009-10-11 03:09:46
Creep are you really into tantric sex? I've heard a lot of rumours about weird
positions and multiple orgasms. Do you like big women?
autotelic   |2009-10-11 03:19:31
did you make that up about there
being no men worth responding to on any
of the personal sites too?

no, it's true, Julian's right, we're
in the wrong state for men, I'm really uninspired.

But I'm sure
that if I was in a real relationship I would be just
as uninspired.

I can't seem to make art anymore, and I'm pretty
sure that has a lot to do with my frustration, making art used to take the
place of men. I don't know why, but I can't make music, or pick up a
paintbrush.

So I'm obsessed with finding a man. You know how the saying
goes:  "Why do we keep searching for things that bring suffering,
thinking that they'll bring happiness?"
autotelic   |2009-10-11 03:27:20
all the women I know and respect are still creative, and they don't struggle
with rescue fantasies, you gotta know that I hate being trapped in this
position.

Maybe I should just buy a fucking canvas and try, I used to be so
prolific, what happened?

I don't think the meds are responsible, not
entirely, God knows the mind is still a problem on medication, and there's no
shortage of thought or ideas, the will to create just isn't there.
autotelic   |2009-10-11 03:37:11
I am incredibly empty and deeply lonely, and now I just deal with it the
way everyone else does. I work out at the gym several hours a day, and
I'm always shopping for new clothes. It's not very creative.

And,
I have an excessive amount of energy that isn't being channeled
properly.

Women that don't have or want children need to stay engaged with the
creative process, or they become tortured by their own existence.
S   |2009-10-11 03:55:12
women without children have to work really hard at keeping life meaningful,
we're natural caregivers, and when there isn't anyone or anything (like
creativity) that needs our attention, we tend to wither.
autotelic   |2009-10-11 04:09:31
Taking care of a man, role playing with a man, acting out the role of his
daughter, his lover, and his mother is a real novelty act that creative women
tire of very quickly, it's fun at first, but soon enough, strong, willful women
are able to recognize that losing their identity in daughter/lover/mother to the
man isn't going to produce lasting satisfaction, they have to find solace in
their work, or modes of expression outside of the relationship.

But, if a
woman is going through a creative dry spell, she'll often think that finding a
man is the solution to the persistent ache.

It's like, let's play house,
since there's nothing else going on right now anyway.
D   |2009-10-11 04:12:03
This afternoon in the Borders bookstore in town I read an account of how
Leonard Woolf was instructed to drown some puppies by his father when he was a
kid. Woolf had filled a bucket with water and as he held the first tiny dog's
warm body under the water the dog fought desperately for its life and for the
first time ever Woolf realized that animals had an 'I' just like us.
The
account really threw me and I just felt totally overwhelmed by anguish for all
the 'I's in the world.
JVZ   |2009-10-11 04:13:43
we're natural caregivers, and when there isn't anyone or anything
(like
creativity) that needs our attention, we tend to wither.

Ouch!
So glad I'm not programmed like this.
I don't even feel guilty about
not wanting to be a provider.
S   |2009-10-11 04:19:42
I just felt totally overwhelmed by anguish for all
the 'I's in the
world.

I know, it's intense.

Is the existential crisis just
a luxury?
D   |2009-10-11 04:23:27
Sorry autotelic , my machine went down, that last post of mine seems totally out
of place .I simply hadn't seen your posts as my machine had frozen. .
But ,
yes, if one is good partner material these relationship problems dont arise at
all, its just a question of getting a partner and getting on with it, but for
some of us it isn't that easy. I realised I was being too negative in my
conversation with an acquaintance today but I can't help it, that's just how I
am and I almost feel compelled to tell other people what I think. I feel like I
am observing life a lot rather than living it.

On the creative front , yes
you should just get a canvas and see what happens, maybe use humour , be
playful. Sometimes we just get drawn into the serious. It's a struggle.

.
D   |2009-10-11 04:34:45
Is the existential crisis just a luxury?

It's a good question but the
spontaneous emotional overwhelming is depression and its always
been there in the background. Is it a luxury? Yes, I guess so. Maybe
other people are simply stronger or less aware of things.

It doesn't
feel like I have the luxury of ignoring how things are.

But
creativity helps , it also requires a lot of effort or having a muse.
Anonymous   |2009-10-11 04:47:40
It comes down to this, if you can't cut it in a relationship then you have to be
creative at entertaining yourself otherwise there won't be anything there to
distract you from the pointlessness of existence. So yes , the absence of
distractions is a luxury but a terrible one.
Anonymous   |2009-10-11 05:12:07
So the question is, I guess, whats the least harmful and most sustainable and
effective combination of distractions?
Anonymous   |2009-10-11 05:18:04
Or put the other way round - the most beneficial combination of
distractions?

This cuts out the luxury of avoiding the question.
Anonymous   |2009-10-11 05:20:12
what would make me happy/happier?
TheChimp   |2009-10-11 06:06:01
I'm now convinced that just being a self replicating genetic machine or as near
as damn it is a luxury.
MrsMT   |2009-10-11 13:28:07
Taking care of a man, role playing with a man, acting out the role of
his
daughter, his lover, and his mother is a real novelty act that
creative women
tire of very quickly, it's fun at first, but soon
enough, strong, willful women
are able to recognize that losing their
identity in daughter/lover/mother to the
man isn't going to produce
lasting satisfaction,

This is perverse as it ignores working on a
relationship and family as 'creative activities' for women and
the possibility that 'strong independent creative women' can be in a
meaningful satisfactory relationship and/or have families as well.
It also ignores that men are care givers too and face us back across
the sexual divide , sometimes as equally frustrated and confused , in a
range of son/lover/father and other roles that we expect them to
fulfil as well.

Yes, there are inequalities and imbalances within
society that still favour the male of the species but for the single
female ' creatives' who are fed up with their own reflection and
incredibly frustrated by  the existential chore of trying to figure
out what to do with the free time they have left on their hands in
modern society simply blaming men for their predicament or for failing to
match their heightened female level of human awareness  suggests to
me that some single women still have a lot of evolving of their own to do.
Lex   |2009-10-11 13:36:11
single female
' creatives' who are fed up with their own
reflection

ha ha ha ha .....are you kidding?

most single female
creatives are unrepentant full on narcissists whose struggle
for attention mostly takes place within the mirror. this isn't
judgmental its descriptive. i have no desire to get us guys off the hook
in fucked-up-ness but admins lets have some balance , please!!!
Heatseeker   |2009-10-11 13:48:16
You people need to seriously stop thinking and tap into the cosmic flow or
you'll get stuck in orbit critically circling the emotionally coldest ,
loneliest and remotest regions of the planet. Sure it's there but why do you
need to be? Come in from the cold, seek the light.
BrutalBruce   |2009-10-11 14:31:49
"tap into the cosmic flow"?

WTF? We boot TM but seem to have
evolved an Open Door policy for hippies.
Helen   |2009-10-11 14:49:35
Ok my question to you guys is how does the focussed single creative woman avoid
unacceptable compromise and undue distraction in trying to get her sexual and
relational needs even partially met as it feels like we're being pressed to
resist the forces of nature .What do we want? What are our options here?
autotelic   |2009-10-11 15:16:40
where did you all come from? Not sure I was trying to start a
conversation, I just wanted to get my own desperation/addiction/and
grave aversion in check.

I don't want to keep craving things that
aren't designed to bring satisfaction.

This is perverse as it ignores working on a relationship and family
as
'creative activities' for women and the possibility
that
'strong independent creative women' can be in
a meaningful
satisfactory relationship and/or have families as
well.

Blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm just dying to get myself in a
situation where I can be irritated relentlessly.

Let me
guess, you've read every book about superwomen that can have it
all......I never read any of those books, but I have read all the books
that dispell that myth.
autotelic   |2009-10-11 15:28:18
You people need to seriously stop thinking and tap into the cosmic flow
or
you'll get stuck in orbit critically circling the emotionally
coldest ,
loneliest and remotest regions of the planet. Sure it's
there but why do you
need to be? Come in from the cold, seek the
light.

I'm still open to finding out more about the
Levitating Creep. I could be way off, but I picture him looking like
Moby, maybe with a goatee, and a tattoo of the dharma wheel on his right
arm, and a small piercing under his bottom lip.

I may be way off,
but I'm very good at projecting.
autotelic   |2009-10-11 15:36:28
It comes down to this, if you can't cut it in a relationship then you have
to be
creative at entertaining yourself otherwise there won't
be anything there to
distract you from the pointlessness of
existence

Some would argue that struggling single mothers are better off
than women like myself.

......I've been way too influenced by
cruising faggots. I spent my youth hanging round the Chelsea boys. Old
habits die hard.
JVZ   |2009-10-11 15:51:54
......I've been way too influenced by cruising
faggots. I spent my youth
hanging round the Chelsea boys.

"She's a lot like you, the
dangerous type"

The Cars
autotelic   |2009-10-11 15:56:43
most single female creatives are
unrepentant full on narcissists whose
struggle for attention
mostly takes place within the mirror.

Tell
me about it, I thought botox would be enough, but now I'm all hell bent on
getting juvederm injections around my mouth.
ThePleasantvilleKid   |2009-10-11 16:00:14
I know LevitatingCreep , I turned him on to the site and you're right about one
thing, he's bald . Project on.
LevitatingCreep   |2009-10-11 16:09:11
Hey fuck you kid, I would have found this site sooner or later through Googling
'narcissistic personality disorder' .
autotelic   |2009-10-11 16:10:31
I'm going to see a production of Oedipus today, and then maybe tonight I'll go
see The New Model Army.

Have any of you ever seen The Subhumans live? They
occasionally blow into town too. It never costs more than 10 bucks to see
them.

I saw Juliana Hatfield a few years ago at the same club for like 5
bucks!!!!!!!!
MrsMT   |2009-10-11 16:10:58
How does one reconcile advocating the death of desire with botox and juvederm
injections?
Bjorn   |2009-10-11 16:27:42
Oedipus production , timely and the New Model Army, Jesus , they go way back....
Bittersweet, Great Expectations and The Love of Hopeless Causes...all still
familar themes here. Do the Primitives or Siouxsie ever play in ABC and whatever
happened to Wendy James?
autotelic   |2009-10-11 16:36:38
How does one reconcile advocating the death of desire with botox and
juvederm
injections?

Who said anything about the death of desire? I've
got a very serious addiction that I do my best to control (through
other addictive distractions) whenever possible.

Actually, my entire
life is about managing my addictions with other addictions, so that I
don't get too overwhelmed by any one of them at any given time.

Whatever
it takes to avoid being tortured to death. I've always detested the
present moment (except when I'm working or having sex) but God knows, I'm
in the fucking moment!
MarinCountyHealer   |2009-10-11 16:54:01
I've always detested the present
moment (except when I'm working or
having sex)

Probably because you're a romance addict, I reckon
you never felt safe as a child either?

Anywhere was better than
being at home, right?
D   |2009-10-11 16:59:41
Never saw the Subhumans live , at least not knowingly, but during the heyday of
that whole 'Crass' inspired thing ( think disciplined Black Flag without
Rollins' ego) saw a lot of similar bands on the London squat scene, some serious
anarcho-punk, some tedious art school pap. Throbbing Gristle kickstarted a lot
of that scene , more anarcho than Crass's directly political but there was a
belief in the power of hands on direct action through the music scene back then
that's just not there anymore in the corporate wastelands of now.
Bjorn   |2009-10-11 17:21:20
I've always detested the present
moment (except when I'm working or
having
sex)
That about sums up the lot of most people whose lives have
become one long compulsive flight from now and deep down it's probably
based on a really fucking tragic childhood misunderstanding of how time
works. My first conscious memory is of feeling trapped in the moment
and my second was wondering how to escape it, something I've been
pointlessly trying to do ever since.
Vinny   |2009-10-11 17:31:52
well put Bjorn
JVZ   |2009-10-11 17:34:30
Anywhere was better than being at home, right?

It's still that way for
me.
Anonymous   |2009-10-11 17:36:26
Someone needs to write a book called 'The Great Despisers of The Present Moment'
Bjorn   |2009-10-11 17:41:11
Phillip Zimbardo and John Boyd explain something similar much more eloquently in
their book ' The Time Paradox', the New Psychology of Time' but in essence the
tragic mistake is to think we need to escape 'now' rather than creatively engage
with it. That's the misunderstanding that ensures the pessimistic child is
doomed.
Narcissus   |2009-10-11 17:44:20
Actually, my entire life
is about managing my addictions with other
addictions, so that I don't get
too overwhelmed by any one of them at
any given time.

what are some of your other addictions, making
notes of every new line on your face, so that every time you go to
the dermatologist there will be something new to talk about?
Anonymous   |2009-10-11 18:05:12
Someone needs to write a book called 'The Great Despisers of The Present
Moment'

That's the paradoxical tragedy , the Greatest Despisers
of the Present Moment simply wouldn't take the time to write a brief
history on their revulsion for Now as they'd be too busy trying to escape
it. How else could you pessimistic types be so accomplished in so
many ways but so short on the treasured memories and accumulated profits
other people carry forward from the past.
desik   |2009-10-11 18:06:49
Get going to that concert, and enjoy.
Anonymous   |2009-10-11 18:20:12
hey anon, we great despisers of the present moment wouldn't be the ones writing
a book about it, you would.
Sarah   |2009-10-12 01:31:35
Some would argue that struggling single mothers are better off than
women
like myself.

That's only because they have no choice but to
be startled into the present moment for at least 18 years.
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