We decided to resolve the corporate identity crisis this new pressing reality and change agenda imposed on us by taking the site offline but leaving a telephone helpline  in place to support people to better come to terms with any outstanding loss or other issues around the site and to help individuals embrace positive change and move on.

Incredibly in the space of just 48 hours we received thousands of calls from people pleading with us to keep the site online.

Our call centre manager mailed us  this morning to say that she had been fielding calls all night . We'll let her explain herself.

"by midnight there were 12 volunteers and we were still struggling to answer the phones , we had calls coming in from as far afield as Europe, China and even Canada of all places and it was so moving  the Holy Cross centre's janitor , a psychopathic heavily tattooed ex-gang member  we employ under a State funded Rehabilitation scheme was pitching in to take calls and clearly visibly moved by the level of support we were receiving. One caller named Trent from Los Angeles  ordered extra large pizzas for everyone in the call centre team !  The calls were still coming in thick and fast well into the early hours of Thursday morning and then the East coast woke up and the switchboard just lit up like a Christmas tree ......"

The calls weren't all supportive though , we had some negative calls too , a slew of them from Pittsburg, Pennsylvania for some reason and some  of the calls we received were downright abusive and uncalled for including one from 'Colin' in New York we consider too potentially distressing and anatomically inaccurate  to share here.

But to all those who phoned in heartfelt support  we heard you and in response we called an extraordinary meeting of the site management team first thing this morning at  which we unanimously agreed to get back online because you the people want us here.

People  we are  truly  not worthy of this level of support and loyalty but we're willing to overlook this if you are  to continue being here for you.

Love and Respect

Bjorn and the Team

Comments

MarinCountyHealer   |2009-10-29 19:08:43 Can we clear up the reference to Ramos please, this was a confidential e-mail .

TMfocus   |2009-10-30 23:06:52 Oh Please! Just how many last chances do you guys get?

desik   |2009-10-30 23:09:09 Your absolutism sucks TM and it's most pathetic victim is you.

autotelic   |2009-10-31 02:49:22 In many ways I have sold out to silence. I'm gonna watch my tongue on this board, I'm going to try and not be so mean anymore. Sure, it would be pretty easy for me to say nasty things about most everyone I've ever had contact with, but I won't do it, it's going to be challenging, knowing that the site is back up.

Dr Spock  - the proactive and reactive   |2009-10-31 12:41:38 On not being mean about people any more , there's this one episode in that old Kung Fu series where Kwai Chang Cain (David Carridine's character)runs into an old would be master Shaolin monk who appears near perfect in every regard but one, he has a fiery critical temper. The monk desperately seeks promotion within the Shaolin order and sets out to prove to Caine that he is as worthy of his reverence as Caine's mentor, the late and venerated Master Po. But sadly the man's temper is his undoing, unable to maintain a persona of benign wisdom he lashes out at Caine, is immediately appalled at his reaction and eventually in an attempt to make ammends appeals to the spirit of Master Po who Caine routinely communicates with for spiritual guidance and redemption to intercede on his behalf. 'Why have I been cursed with this evil temper?' the disgraced monk tearfully asks Master Po through Caine . Po simply says that a man is the master of his own temper not it's servant and that the monk's anger is an essential part of who he is. The guidance instantly shatters the ambitions and illusions of the fallen monk and he lopes off to continue his struggle with his tempestuous shadow alone. This one episode haunted me as I thought that Master Po could have provided better spiritual guidance to the man but then it struck me, he didn't have a solution for him , he was basically saying that trying to be perfect is foolish as our greatest challenge in life is living with what we are.

Angie   |2009-10-31 22:46:07 Hey Spock, I saw that episode on DVD - I am numero uno Karate Kid fan too - but you only give half the story as Po drew Grasshopper's attention to an important life lesson as well as poor Grasshopper was so desperately trying to please and impress his suprise new master and manage his ego and fierce inner resistance to the new guys perfectionism and authoritarianism that he got really confused and despondent and even felt a bit abandoned by his old teacher. Orginally Po had just harshly instructed Grasshopper to stop complaining and defer to the new monks authority and will. It was another test though as Po just wanted Grasshopper to realize how easy it was to be misled and manipulated by seemingly wise authorative types who offer the solutions for everyone elses problems but never seem able to resolve their own. That's why Po made it clear to both Grasshopper and the old monk that whatever answers they sought were to be found within themselves. The old guy was busted because he had never looked inwards and had simply thought everything revolved around Shaolin ritual and appearing wise and in control. Beyond that ,it's a pity David Carradine ended up so fucked up as he was a great actor!

Julian VZ   |2009-10-31 14:19:15 Gross!!!A young Angie getting off on 80's teen hearthrob Ralph Macchio! He was more my type...

D   |2009-10-31 14:36:51 Did Carradine's character actually communicate with his blind former teacher or was that a visualisation of him struggling with his own conscience when things got rough? I only ever saw one or two episodes of the show, I just remember Carradine's character using incense and putting himself into a trance and the music going weird everytime he communicated with his guru , like he was getting stoned or something. It was a lot of fighting, I didn't realize it was meant to be deep.

LevitatingCreep   |2009-10-31 17:41:51 Is this clip from the episode mentioned above? It's a bit schmaltzy but makes the same point - or it would if video would post - through Tao only its Kan not Po.

Bjorn   |2009-11-01 00:33:44 Sure, it would be pretty easy for me to say nasty things about most everyone I've ever had contact with, but I won't do it, it's going to be challenging, knowing that the site is back up. It's often challenging to find more positive things to say about people and life. Also if you're not a great socialiser you realize from very early on that if you badmouth the few people you know they very quickly find out anyway and socialising becomes even more of a complicated and uncomfortable dance. A lot of the time that kind of thing is just pure avoidance strategy anyway, some folk just don't know what to talk about . Sure, people have always argued on this site but with a couple of exceptions - one of whom seems to have taken advantage of the relaunch process to sidestep his lifelong ban - I don't think its ever been anything that personal - at least not to my knowledge .The backbiting hasn't been that nasty...has it?

TMfocus   |2009-10-31 23:08:21 Yes.

autotelic  - discernment   |2009-11-01 01:40:52 I'm talking about lashing out at the world in general. It became too easy for me to use this site as a toxic dumping ground, and I'm not going to use a mean spirited tone anymore. I'll strike a balance that I can live with. I can still make a lighthearted observation about how my ego won't let me surrender to wearing birkenstocks....and things like that. But I'm not going to get all bent out of shape about the different disguises of rage that we all wear, in the world of form, there will always be different values, circumstances, class divisions, everyone has their own story line, but the emotions and sufferings that people experience are all the same. I'm good at being mean, but it will never make me happy, and feeding into negativity will never get me what I want, beyond the life of form. I'm so much more than an illness, diagnosis, or a history of troubled pain. And at this point, dignity, grace, class, and a thoughtful tongue are important to me. I can still observe and document the insanity that surrounds me, and the chaos in my own mind, but I aspire to do so with a more gentle spirit. The only thing that has really changed about this site is that I have stepped down from my position as the ringleader of the tormentors. I no longer want to live with the feelings that such a position evokes.

Dr Spock   |2009-11-01 02:31:05 The emotions and sufferings that people experience are all the same. No they aren't but enlightened self-interest requires us to focus on our own survival - staying sane and leading more purposeful, productive and fulfilling lives ourselves.

D   |2009-11-01 03:58:04 I'm so much more than an illness, diagnosis, or a history of troubled pain. I don't think there is anyone here who would disagree with this.

Bjorn   |2009-11-01 13:16:20 This notion The emotions and sufferings that people experience are all the same. bugged me enough deep down to dream about it overnight. In my dream I suddenly found myself in China discussing the country's past, present and future with the owner of a newly established business who viewed the human and environmental costs of China's rapid development as of no concern to him. In short he was pretty detached and fully absorbed in his own business , like optimising the Feng Shui of his new business premises, but nonetheless we were able to agree in the dream that change is a universal constant and that we all waste way too much time in our lives trying to resist it.

autotelic   |2009-11-01 13:55:03 Emotional suffering caused by thought is universal, everyone knows what anger, fear, loneliness, disappointment, envy, selfishness, confusion, and abandonment feel like. Our circumstances and situational reality will always feel special, ironic, and unique, which will make us feel separate and disconnected from others, but even so, the idea of separateness is highly suspect given the absolute truth of the first paragraph. "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."

D   |2009-11-01 14:36:24 It's amazing how our dreams help us reconcile some conflicting issues we find it too difficult or painful to consciously absorb , and a lot of us definitely do need to block out overwhelming thoughts of human suffering - our own and other peoples - if those thoughts routinely hinder not only our growth but our very survival. Unfortunately dreams don't seem to work so well at reconciling things at the grand conflicting worldview level - even though they often serve as pointers towards that end - but consciously held spiritual beliefs obviously do help us to overcome that sense of being overwhelmed by suffering in the world , including those spiritual beliefs that are predicated and focus on the idea that all life is suffering. That particular notion though isn't always going to be the most helpful one for some people who have experienced depression and bleakly visualised human and societal rot, decay and extinction in stark black and white on a daily basis - just how much 'objective reality' at the decomposing human carcass and rancid shit level does one actually need to aquire spiritual enlightenment? For me, there's a point after which the idea of anihilating further aspects of one's self doesn't actually hit home as ' life affirming'... But there is a balance to be struck here and its a personal one obviously. We each have to somehow find the level of detachment , awareness and diminishment of ego that works for us , that's most favourable to our circumstances and 'better livable' and yes it should be a gentle balance as well precisely because there is no optimum, one size fits all spiritual solution .

autotelic   |2009-11-01 16:08:25 For me, there's a point after which the idea of anihilating further aspects of one's self doesn't actually hit home as ' life affirming'... and for me, I'm discovering that annihilating aspects of myself that generate and perpetuate more suffering is helping me heal my legacy of rage, and opening up new unchartered aspects of myself that I never thought I was capable of feeling or knowing about.

Bjorn   |2009-11-02 06:01:49 Emotional suffering caused by thought is universal, everyone knows what anger, fear, loneliness, disappointment, envy, selfishness, confusion,and abandonment feel like. Our circumstances and situational reality will always feel special, ironic, and unique, which will make us feel separate and disconnected from others, but even so, the idea of separateness is highly suspect given the absolute truth of the first paragraph. I once had a run in with a suspect Christian group that adopted almost the same logic only to them suffering apart from the rest of humanity was the result of sinful pridefulness and spiritual weakness not suspect 'specialness' but perversely all suffering was to be welcomed as a test of the strength of one's faith too. There's no shortage of spiritual and emotional wellbeing therapists - we have one on here regularly - courses and books and they obviously deliver change and growth for loads of people but I don't find this kind of approach helpful - well I haven't yet - or particularly believe its based on any absolute or eternal truths. That's not to say I'm not desperately looking for solutions . And by the way , rage isn't such an issue with me, at least not outwardly directed rage anyway. I looked into CBT for my depression a while back but the strictly time-limited aspect bugs me because it takes me a long time just to start to trust someone.  Whatever, the literature is now questioning the effectiveness of CBT with anything other than mild depression and OCD traits . So , for me it's science failing at one extreme as meds don't help much either and faith based approaches to recovery just not being convincing or appealing enough to me - yet - at the other. Anyway, hope you keep breaking through and free of your old emotional shackles and moving towards your own recovery. Good luck.

ThePleasantvilleKid   |2009-11-02 04:42:32 I remember you mentioning that Christian group before, didn't they try to convince one of your friends that he was demonically possessed?

Bjorn   |2009-11-02 06:06:36 They didn't just try Kid they did convince the guy that he was possessed by demons and of course from their fundamentalist Christian perspective mental and emotional problems could only be explained as self-inflicted injury within the context of Sin. They were weird and apparently viewed physical disability the same way and had evolved ways of explaining how even obvious random accidents that negatively impacted on people had been attracted towards them by Sinfulness but as I mentioned earlier, somehow one's faith was tested through suffering too , that's more common within Christianity, it was a sign of spiritual strength to resist the onslaught of illness but nothing bad could happen naturally, the African influence, as they believed life was a real battle between the physical and spiritual forces of good and evil, the dark side was demonic possession. It may come across like Karma but it leaned more towards traditional witchcraft with the 'spiritually' weak being preyed upon by demons who fed on Sin. I got hold of one of their leaflets once, it was Fire and Brimstone meets Night of the Living Dead. I guess the nearest thing Stateside would be Santeria .

Buzz Lightyear   |2009-11-02 12:15:00 Bjorn you're supposed to be kind , that last comment practically has racist overtones...

Bjorn   |2009-11-02 13:29:59 Nonsense! I live in one of the most ethnically diverse cities on earth and that mix manifests itself in weird and wonderful religious and spiritual beliefs, groups and events as well. Understand I don't resent this. Every other day I get a leaflet pushed through the door from the Mormons, The Jehovah's Witnesses, the Salvation Army or some Spiritual Healer. One of the latest leaflets is entitled ' Day of Decision' One Decision can Change Your Life! The leaflet has a huge burning 'D' on it like the Klu klux Klan burning cross and the leaflet thunders 'You can do what you want with your life , right now' and continues "This is so powerful it's scary. Scary because improperly used this power can destroy you , or be used by others against you". and Despite the fact that God is all powerful , billions of people in the world continue to suffer because they refuse to bend their will to his The address for these guys is  link:http://****makeadecisionnow.com/ ....but wait, we've missed the deadline for making a decision , it was 25th October so this leaflet has been around for a while. Anyway, I just wanted to make it clear that this 'Fire and Brimstone' stuff is incoming and relentless and naturally enough the feeding frenzy for hearts and minds has  increased during the recession , the global economic downturn has given the major players a real stimulus and they are bullish in their  seeking out of lost souls in what's always been a pretty competetive and crowded marketplace. People are looking for certainty and Faith groups are spending big bucks and exploiting all the latest technologies and marketing techniques on ads promising to provide it to reel punters in. Religious and Spiritual Wellbeing is a service industry! If people are comfortable with beliefs and groups they've connected with over time or have always been around that's ok but too much pressure and choice in a market often diminishes the quality of decisions people make and Faith groups trading today certainly rely on people making snap all trusting decisions right now!!! I'm not hardwired to do that so if people think I'm being mean towards this or that religion or path to spiritual awareness or enlightenment , think again, I'm not, I'm just saying I'm scanning all ports but struggling with the poor signal-to-noise ratio.

autotelic   |2009-11-02 13:36:57 I saw an interview with Carrie Fisher on Charlie Rose, and she said that every six weeks she receives ECT.

D   |2009-11-02 13:47:10 I saw an interview with Carrie Fisher on Charlie Rose, and she said that every six weeks she receives ECT.Wow, that's a hardcore mental workout! Did Fisher say what specific benefit she got from it? Non-believers really need to find a way to tap into whatever it is in religion that works.

autotelic   |2009-11-02 13:53:53 I've been finding that focusing on the similarities, instead of the differences that we all share has been very helpful at allowing me to feel more cradled in the present moment, and more bound to the rest of the human race. I do believe that we're all in this together, struggling to work with emotional suffering caused by thought.

autotelic   |2009-11-02 13:58:34 Wow, that's a hardcore mental workout! Did Fisher say what specific benefit she got from it?  She said that it eradicates all short term memory, as far back as 4 months, but that's probably not very helpful for people that are trying to "be ok" with long term memories, memories that we have inherited from our ancestors.

Frank   |2009-11-02 13:58:53 Carrie Fisher:" I lost 4 months of my life but it was worth it! "Ouch! ...but there are worse ways to destroy time that I'd prefer to forget.

Anonymous   |2009-11-03 00:53:40 Yeah, I think reconciliation is preferable, you know, 'I no longer want to be my worst enemy and wish to be my best friend.' Maybe Carrie Fisher reached the point where she thought there was nothing left inside of her prepared to mentally fight on her behalf. That's a pretty fatal place to be. Still, it's taking the idea of 'anihilating the self to a whole new level' . It's the lure of 're-invention' too I guess.  Re-absorption is probably a lot healthier.  On this I do believe that we're all in this together, struggling to work with emotional suffering caused by thought. Of course we're all in this together I don't doubt that and I totally agree with you that it's our personal responsibility and primary duty to overcome the thought patterns that emotionally disorder and mishape the personality but life isn't just a thought exercise and there are implications to just assuming it is. I guess my reaction - and it was a reaction! - to the 'absolute truth' of the 'thought as source of suffering and shared understanding of suffering ' comment was that mental dysfunction in extremis often dis-equips people to fit in with our theories. We all want neat and tidy accounts of how the world is but the notion of 'thought as source of suffering and shared understanding of suffering ' is recursive , it's not allowing for the very thing all external causes have been abstracted away to get at, the effect of disordered thought , to have a real world effect back on the theory itself .That's why it can't be an absolute truth . Some people are so psychologically damaged they will never ever be able to see the role they play in mishaping themselves and others have genetic and neurological damage that compound their thought disorders . We have to model for degrees of dysfunctionality otherwise we'll just lose sight of some people altogether .

Kimi   |2009-11-03 01:00:46 I saw an interview with Carrie Fisher on Charlie Rose, and she said that every six weeks she receives ECT. Wish I'd seen that interview as I was shocked too. I knew Fisher had struggled with addictions but I thought she was over her mental health issues . But ECT? and every 6 weeks? Boy, that's intensive! Who recommended this treatment? Did she say during the interview? Did the recommendation come from her doctor? Were drug and talking therapy treatments exhausted? Was it the treatment of last resort? Isn't ECT usually a last resort treatment for basket cases? Was Fisher that bad? I wonder if Fisher opted for this treatment regime herself to stick to her pressing work schedule or as an alternative to toxic drug regimes and or time consuming therapy that the actress hasn't found useful in the past. ECT every 6 weeks? Could that get worked into an addictive personality because it is such a weird treatment regime. Is ECT being used as a reactive or preventative treatment here? Are Fisher's bi-polar episodes that predictably cyclical? Does she have almost constant depression as I can't see this treatment being based around mania, I mean being up. Is it being used to treat violent moodswings or a near catatonic depressive state?  Carrie Fisher is high profile , she is still  Princess Leia to most people for God's sake. This treatment is getting high profile attention so a significant number of people out there are going to be wondering if its a viable option for them just because it's in the media. Is this a weird and unique Hollywood treatment regime driven by Carrie Fisher or is this an ECT regime that's happening a lot in the background that's just getting media attention now because of who Fisher is? Like I said, I wish I'd seen the interview because I'd like to know more about ECT as a treatment but its been a taboo subject up until now. Is ECT a safe and viable treatment for the rest of us?

Anonymous   |2009-11-03 01:09:37 This is Carrie Fisher talking to Stephen Fry in 2006 for the 'Secret Life of a Manic Depressive 'series. I think we can assume that Carrie is undergoing the ECT treatment to deal with this ruining her life. Bipolar is supposed to let up with age but there are no guarantees.

Dr Spock   |2009-11-03 13:51:51 Watched a tech video on YouTube earlier that discussed the repression of intimacy in the workplace - just normal familial , friendly and healthy interpersonal interactions - and thought of how this also takes place within the mental health realm where intimacy and empathy are often lacking. Knowingly or otherwise, professional culture seems to tap into our difficulty of empathising when large numbers are involved , it almost seems to be based upon it, empowering behaviour that practically shuns intimacy of any kind . Is there a need to democratise intimacy ?

D  - songs of desire   |2009-11-03 17:59:47 Wet and cold here so have given up on prowling the streets and am listening to Eels 'Hombre Lobo' , it's essentially an outpouring of tortured animal loneliness and longing , think emotionally flat flipside to GC's 'Happiness in Magazines' ...raw songs of blind brute longing for longings sake mostly.'Ordinary Guy' is bittersweet on the ears but hilariously tragic and 'Fresh Blood' requires no explanation whatsoever on this board...

desik   |2009-11-04 00:02:59 A UK couple who took their own lives sent the following explanation and 'personal critical assessment ' to the BBC , the state operated TV network. "We have been fortunate to have lived through and enjoyed 80 plus years of a happy, loving and exciting life. "It would be impossible to thank all the people and organisations which every day, without fail, have contributed to our lifespan. "There's just one outstanding [group] which we think everyone would go along with, the medical profession and the NHS in which they serve. They have usefully extended our lives by at least 25-30 years. "We leave this life with just one serious and disappointing criticism of our society. "Today we have been denied what we believe to be our basic human right - to terminate our own lives, in our own home, at our own choosing, with our loved ones around us, without anyone having to face any legal possibilities or harassment." In the UK there is mounting  pressure for a change in the law on assisted suicide as where once people planned for their retirement now many want to plan exit strategies to avoid excessive suffering and infirmity and they want to be able to have the choice of dying with dignity at home surrounded by their loved ones. At present UK law punishes any intimate involvment in this type of suicide placing  partners , family members and friends of those who wish to end their lives to put a stop to suffering in a terrible moral bind.

Dexter   |2009-11-05 00:41:45 "We leave this life with just one serious and disappointing criticism of our society.Duh! If these guys had just tolerated the spoonfeeding for a few more years they could have had vital organ transfers as standard , radical bodywork makevovers and got themselves uploaded into the latest xbox for the great great grandkids to play with.

Frank   |2009-11-05 01:41:15 "We leave this life with just one serious and disappointing criticism of our society. Jesus, I haven't left yet and I already have quite a few..... but I'm staying with the program, maybe the bliss will kick in later on.

autotelic  - goatpax   |2009-11-05 14:32:40 It turns out adhering to the policy of "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it all" is much easier than I thought it would be. I'm not even tempted to rant. In other news, I might check out a class on The Fourth Way. That song I wrote called 'Sebastian' gets downloaded from my site about 70 times a day (It was always my one hit wonder), and there's still some sketchy data when I look at my cpanel. Bjorn, have you ever seen anything like this lifeisbrutallyunfair.com/horde/mail/README?

Julian VZ   |2009-11-05 15:46:50 there's still some sketchy data when I look at my cpanel. It just means that someone really wants to redesign your website. Have you ever thought about throwing down a little money for a more contemporary look, something that's more reflective of where you are now?

Dr Spock   |2009-11-05 16:54:00 "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it all" Oft attributed to Momma but being genuinely positive in outlook requires a more balanced approach to life , like realising that when pushed too much as a virtue 'nice' all too easilly just becomes another self absorbing vice .

Bjorn   |2009-11-05 17:10:42 hey autotelic, I don't know much about the Fourth Way beyond a rough thumbnail sketch but unless one just landed on the planet the truth is that human beings have an incredible inventiveness and have evolved a miriad of 'systematised ways of being' that , when really freely chosen, suit different personality types and human needs and at the end of the day it doesn't really matter if its catholicism, , objectivism, environmentalism or the fourth way that floats ones boat , what matters is that it helps one survive and be a happier and presumably better person , I guess. Still searching here as well... Not sure about that lifeisbrutallyunfair.com/horde/mail/README? Could be hacked PHP . Is it a mail you received ( it looks like a spam or viral hook with that readme?) or a link that shows up in your CPanel as a referral hit? It's probably spoofed . Oh and Julian could be right .....open to ideas here on redesign ...but please, I draw the line at Easter Bunny yellow

TMfocus   |2009-11-05 20:28:09 Hey Bjorn you jerk Julian was talking about autotelic's personal site not this piece of shit.

Bjorn   |2009-11-05 20:32:51 Julian was talking about autotelic's personal site not this piece of shit. Oh...right, my mistake, guess that was me getting ahead of myself. Anyway, be Nice TM, share the kindness.

Levitating Creep   |2009-11-06 02:08:55 Actually this site could really do with a makeover , another pic too, one on positive use of masks would be cool, the various masks of reality as we obviously need to juggle them at times. What's led to the interest in Gurdjieff auto?

Sophie   |2009-11-06 03:09:40 A time for positive soul searching.

autotelic   |2009-11-06 05:44:08 ...slowly unweaving the intricate web of psychological terror that I publicly created for myself over the past 40 years. How did I ever voluntarily endure so much fear and angst, more importantly, why did I go public with it? So let's hear it for the masks of sanity......(it's still ok to parody me in future pics.) Did you know that I don't even consider myself borderline anymore. I'm using my mind to outsmart my "habitual mind". I guess I'm not even a satirist anymore. I have finally become the girl with no personality. I'm changing. What about the pervasive free floating anxiety you may ask? It's still hovering around, and is being dealt with in private journals. (For me, it's a major accomplishment to stand by my decision to no longer be critical of others in public forums.)

D   |2009-11-06 13:22:08 I have finally become the girl with no personality. I'm changing. Hey you're doing really well but as open question rather than criticism, do you really think we recover by obliterating our personality ? I think we recover in that old 12 steps way of learning to change the things we can and to live in a more accepting way with the things we can't change. I still see your personality autotelic , I mean positively and it's ok, personality isn't simply the negative .  As for the 'why on earth did I voluntarily  grandstand my angst and misery in public for so long? question, I guess as kids people learn to get attention in particular ways , and some of us obviously mistook the easiest way - just getting in other peoples faces and outrightly demanding it  - as the most natural and productive way and stuck with it because the immediacy , whether it achieved anything material or lasting or not, made any other way of gaining attention seem like a nightmare of self-discipline and too much like hard work and after all, life was supposed to be weightless, right? I guess very publicly articulating how we feel is a kind of habitual performance that becomes its own reward in other ways as well , not least saving us the pain of trying to focus on the root causes of our distress or simply better ways of dealing with it on our own. In the last few months I've lost almost two stones in weight as I blew up through trying to comfort eat my way out of depression earlier this year . It's not as glamourous as full blown spiritual growth but it's also hard work struggling to positively refocus without becoming totally addicted to some other form of harmful or pointless self- comforting. No matter how much weight I lose though, physically or metaphorically , I'm still going be left with me. It's hardly Pema Chodron but I know as well as she does that if we don't keep our feet firmly on the ground vanity kicks in and we just find new self-dazzling ways to bulshit ourselves , we just don't realise it until it gets us well in over our heads again. In terms of a supporting philosophy, I've opted for the ' Any Way' as I don't particularly care where I get help and support from - Nat Branden ,the Dali Llama or Carrie Fisher on YouTube, it's all the same to me and very welcome if it helps. What's most important is that I stay constructively focussed and understand that there are no quick fixes and that at the end of the day there isn't an escape from living and dealing with that guy called me. At the start of this decade I was working in personal development earning a lot more money than I actually deserved and needed leading workshops aimed at quickly turning around other peoples lives so I'm kind of all guru'd out and just focussing now on trying to practically balance that all too human inspirational need to believe in higher forces and pathways to foreverness with the more worldly need to sort my day to day chaotic and ordinary mortal life out while it lasts.

Bjorn   |2009-11-06 13:50:05 So let's hear it for the masks of sanity......(it's still ok to parody me in future pics.) lol. been thinking about the mask of reality pic for a while, about the issue as well as they detail, and decided on plural , just need to get on with it...the pics aren't straight parodies, i mean they are meant to be fun way at looking at situations , there's always ambiguity  i'm just not as photogenic as you are . For some reason I hung back from making you the winking  Bhudda figure .... but it would have looked cool

Julian VZ   |2009-11-06 15:25:54 What about the pervasive free floating anxiety you may ask? It's still hovering around, and is being dealt with in private journals. I know this wasn't supposed to be funny, but it did make me laugh. It's funny, ok! It's really funny!

Anonymous   |2009-11-06 15:43:11 It's hardly Pema Chodron but I know as well as she does that if we don't keep our feet firmly on the ground vanity kicks in and we just find new self-dazzling ways to bulshit ourselves , we just don't realise it until it gets us well in over our heads again. Nothing will keep your feet more firmly planted on the ground than being aware of, and not providing empty calories to negativity.

Anonymous   |2009-11-06 15:45:16 Everything is hilarious apart from those long bouts of silence in between the outbreaks of laughing when we catch ourself wondering what we're actually laughing at .

Moonchild   |2009-11-06 15:53:21 God! I so miss the 60's, back then 'awareness' was more than a hastily read paperback and a new haircut.

TMfocus  - re: God! I so miss the 60's   |2009-11-06 16:04:30 Yeah, I remember , awareness was a regular junkie gig at the Chelsea Hotel. The hairstyles sucked though.

autotelic   |2009-11-06 16:34:10 'awareness' was more than a hastily read paperback and a new haircut. right, awareness requires consistency and vigilance, and if you're not committed to that process yourself, you'll just project your own thoughts about hastily read paperbacks and new haircuts onto other people.

autotelic   |2009-11-06 16:43:29 Nothing will keep your feet more firmly planted on the ground than being aware of, and not providing empty calories to negativity. Some of the people on this board are probably really irritated that I am changing, we haven't really spoken about it yet, but the site was taken down for a few days because of it. It's a shenpa heyday fest, a collaboration of oppositional viewpopints. I can deal with it, hopefully the other admin can too.

FMfocus   |2009-11-06 18:49:45 Oh come on anon get real, the admin in question simply swanned off taking the site with him when he realised autotelic was halfway to achieving nirvana and he was still stuck hugging his black sun and making no effort to change himself. . The guy so obviously resents the exciting changes autotelic is undergoing , her happiness , independence and forward momentum clearly upset him , just look at the lengths he's gone to to keep her entrapped here. Take it from me, he's a real beast.

Angie   |2009-11-06 19:07:50 Whoooaaa! Hold your fire guys as I'm staying neutral. I thought you were just playing the usual plain crazy zany comment ping pong but if there are any sacred cows on the board now maybe people should point them out cos if not I'll probably end up fucking eating one.

Levitating Creep   |2009-11-07 01:55:11 It's a shenpa heyday fest,a collaboration of oppositional viewpopints. I can deal with it, hopefully the other admin can too. Playing online parlour game 'Spot the Shenpa' is pretty oppositional to 'right mindedness' as I understand the concept but I just wonder why no one has patented the idea and turned it into an app for Facebook .

Bjorn   |2009-11-07 02:28:29 Shenpa-wise I suppose the 'fervour' of others tends to drive me crazy. It just doesn't feel communicative. We all put that brittle vibe out there at times I guess, I don't experience change or difference in itself as life  threatening. If I was producing cards for the online 'Spot the Shenpa' parlour game fervour would be in there and off the top of my head terms applicable to me for annoying others would be 'loud', 'aggressive' ,'stand offish',  'impatient' and 'agitated'.

autotelic   |2009-11-07 05:23:20 Maybe I'll get the chance to play something similar to Spot The Shenpa in The Fourth Way class.

Anonymous   |2009-11-07 13:08:48 No doubt only in Fourth Way jargon the game will be called ' Spot the Photograph' ...

D   |2009-11-07 13:27:47 Huh? Why slum it in some Fourth Way 101 class led by an ex-Hippie in ABC when you can hike over to Apollo California and hang out and seek your authentic presence in real style with the more affluent and ever welcoming Fellowship of Friends?

Bjorn  - ref Fourth Way   |2009-11-07 13:39:00 Exploring the Fourth Way is probably really interesting and if you're going to go there study hard, have fun and enjoy it .

autotelic   |2009-11-07 14:08:33 Shenpa-wise I suppose the 'fervour' of others tends to drive me crazy. It just doesn't feel communicative. Real change is never just some overnight sensation, and sometimes those that have manifested very heavy dense pain bodies are the ones that become completely dedicated to presence. Let's not confuse "the work" with flavour of the month fervour. Look, I used to get really offended when people would say, "Stop being so negative!".....but now I understand it entirely.

Robert   |2009-11-07 15:32:39 Let's not confuse "the work" with flavour of the month fervour. On shenpa, might I ask why you feel so strongly that you need to impose the responsibility of attacking and defending your newfound beliefs on others instead of quietly undertaking it yourself to aquire real depth of knowledge and understanding.

Levitating Creep   |2009-11-08 03:09:30 How to achieve perfect self-awareness is always going to be something people disagree about as it's difficult enough just trying to figure out the basics of being human.

autotelic   |2009-11-08 10:14:08 I don't have anything more to contribute to this site. Goodbye everyone.

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